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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0001836AI War 1 / ClassicBug - OtherFeb 1, 2011 1:13 pm
ReporterInvelios Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status assignedResolutionreopened 
Product Version5.000 
Summary0001836: Command station ships not leaving "de-activated" state
DescriptionThe fleet ships around the command post in my games won't leave a "de-activated" state unless I specifically order a unit of mine to hit one of them. They even stay de-activated if I completely surround them, as in the screenshot. This lets me just surround them with tons of units, attack one to get them to wake up, and slaughter them. Doesn't seem right.

EDIT: Problem seemed to return in 5.0 New screenshot attached
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Invelios

Dec 5, 2010 12:27 am

reporter  

Chris_McElligottPark

Dec 23, 2010 10:48 pm

administrator   ~0007004

This should have been fixed in recent versions.

Invelios

Jan 29, 2011 12:02 am

reporter   ~0009814

I'm starting to have this problem again on 5.0, unfortunately.

Invelios

Jan 29, 2011 12:03 am

reporter  

keith.lamothe

Jan 29, 2011 12:10 am

administrator   ~0009815

Yea, it will happen if there's no guardians or other things there to wake up the guard group.

Would be solved by giving the AI command stations a token attack, but I'm guessing there are reasons they don't already.

TechSY730

Jan 29, 2011 12:37 am

reporter   ~0009819

Maybe there should be an "is there an enemy within a distance of what I am guarding" fall back for alerting (NOT freeing), to prevent odd cases like this. Not sure how CPU intensive that would be though.

Of course, as soon as the ships are alerted and firing, they will probably get fired upon quickly, freeing them quickly.

Invelios

Jan 29, 2011 12:48 am

reporter   ~0009820

One of the annoying things is that player ships will not automatically fire on these non-alerted ships. They just sit there. When I move my ships next to the command station, I kind of expect them to shot at the ships there, like they would any other ship. Having to manually attack a ship every time is a little annoying.

TechSY730

Jan 29, 2011 12:54 am

reporter   ~0009821

Last edited: Jan 29, 2011 12:57 am

There is a very good reason for this. Before, long range ships would fire upon groups of ships far away, causing every ship in that group to wake up and attack. Basically, this meant that if you had any sort of long range unit, it won't be long until you unintentionally put the whole planet on alert. This suppression of auto-fire on non-alerted ships helps to prevent that.

Normally, non-alerted ships get awakened pretty easy once you start actually getting close (thanks to the token attack on all guard posts) or firing upon a group of defenders, so this is normally not very noticeable. However in odd cases like this, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

If you take a weak pot shot at the warp gate, I think that should wake them up.

(Don't fire on the command center unless you want to destroy it. Attacking the command center has a good chance of alerting ALL defenders on that planet, not just the ones guarding the command center)

keith.lamothe

Jan 29, 2011 8:42 am

administrator   ~0009829

"Maybe there should be an "is there an enemy within a distance of what I am guarding" fall back for alerting (NOT freeing), to prevent odd cases like this. Not sure how CPU intensive that would be though."

Very CPU intensive, that's (potentially) a LOT of range checks.

The command station would basically do that (once, rather than per-AI ship, and throttled) if it had a gun with which to target. In theory I could punch through some alternate case that does the same thing but doesn't actually fire. But all such alternate code paths come with their own bugs.

Draco18s

Feb 1, 2011 12:05 pm

developer   ~0009912

You could try giving the command station a "virtual" gun. That is, one with range, reload time, etc. but 0 damage.

keith.lamothe

Feb 1, 2011 12:12 pm

administrator   ~0009913

That wouldn't actually count as a gun in code-terms.

TechSY730

Feb 1, 2011 12:15 pm

reporter   ~0009914

So the engine is smart enough to ignore nonsensical things like guns with 0 base damage?

Draco18s

Feb 1, 2011 12:18 pm

developer   ~0009916

Apparently. :P

Reminds me of some FPS where they wanted neutrals (cows, I think) but it meant that the cows had to be on a team (as the engine was originally coded for only two teams) so they had to give the cows a weapon. It was a pistol, and it caused the cows to run around shooting people.

So they had to take away the ammo.

keith.lamothe

Feb 1, 2011 12:39 pm

administrator   ~0009918

There's really no such thing as a "gun with 0 damage" in the code. All units have an AttackPower stat. If it's zero they're not military units.

And I think they should have just let the cows shoot people.

Draco18s

Feb 1, 2011 12:41 pm

developer   ~0009919

Last edited: Feb 1, 2011 12:42 pm

Cows With Guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

And yes, 0 damage -> non military makes sense. Though I probably would have had -1 be non-military so I could have the "no-gun military" units if I needed them.

keith.lamothe

Feb 1, 2011 12:53 pm

administrator   ~0009920

Haha, I remember seeing that years ago. Cow Tse Tung.

Yea, something like that.

Honestly I think it shouldn't be too awful a thing to give those AI command stations some sort of attack, and it would solve this thing neatly.

TechSY730

Feb 1, 2011 12:57 pm

reporter   ~0009921

Would an alerted conmand station also have a good chance of alerting all defenders on the planet, not just the ones explicitly assigned to it?

keith.lamothe

Feb 1, 2011 1:00 pm

administrator   ~0009922

Alert? No. Anger? Probably, which would be a problem unless the gun was fairly short ranged (in which case don't fly near the the thing).

Draco18s

Feb 1, 2011 1:00 pm

developer   ~0009923

Last edited: Feb 1, 2011 1:01 pm

It would indeed solve the problem.

And I was thinking a short range gun anyway. Maybe 3000?

TechSY730

Feb 1, 2011 1:10 pm

reporter   ~0009924

The AI is right to get scared if your ships get near their command station. It's basically what defines them having the planet after all.

Just for clarification, is angering the same as freeing (adding to the threat)?

keith.lamothe

Feb 1, 2011 1:13 pm

administrator   ~0009925

Yea, angered ships are freed.

And stuff doesn't get angry at scouts, ever, fyi.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Dec 5, 2010 12:27 am Invelios New Issue
Dec 5, 2010 12:27 am Invelios File Added: Screenshot_2010_12_04_19_18_38.png
Dec 23, 2010 10:48 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0007004
Dec 23, 2010 10:48 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status new => resolved
Dec 23, 2010 10:48 pm Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => fixed
Dec 23, 2010 10:48 pm Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Jan 29, 2011 12:02 am Invelios Note Added: 0009814
Jan 29, 2011 12:02 am Invelios Status resolved => feedback
Jan 29, 2011 12:02 am Invelios Resolution fixed => reopened
Jan 29, 2011 12:03 am Invelios File Added: Screenshot_2011_01_28_22_57_52.png
Jan 29, 2011 12:04 am Invelios Product Version 4.045 => 5.000
Jan 29, 2011 12:04 am Invelios Description Updated
Jan 29, 2011 12:10 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009815
Jan 29, 2011 12:37 am TechSY730 Note Added: 0009819
Jan 29, 2011 12:48 am Invelios Note Added: 0009820
Jan 29, 2011 12:48 am Invelios Status feedback => assigned
Jan 29, 2011 12:54 am TechSY730 Note Added: 0009821
Jan 29, 2011 12:57 am TechSY730 Note Edited: 0009821
Jan 29, 2011 8:42 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009829
Feb 1, 2011 12:05 pm Draco18s Note Added: 0009912
Feb 1, 2011 12:12 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009913
Feb 1, 2011 12:15 pm TechSY730 Note Added: 0009914
Feb 1, 2011 12:18 pm Draco18s Note Added: 0009916
Feb 1, 2011 12:39 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009918
Feb 1, 2011 12:41 pm Draco18s Note Added: 0009919
Feb 1, 2011 12:42 pm Draco18s Note Edited: 0009919
Feb 1, 2011 12:53 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009920
Feb 1, 2011 12:57 pm TechSY730 Note Added: 0009921
Feb 1, 2011 1:00 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009922
Feb 1, 2011 1:00 pm Draco18s Note Added: 0009923
Feb 1, 2011 1:01 pm Draco18s Note Edited: 0009923
Feb 1, 2011 1:10 pm TechSY730 Note Added: 0009924
Feb 1, 2011 1:13 pm keith.lamothe Note Added: 0009925