0008707: Multi-hit damage way too high. - DEV Arcen

ID	Project	Category		Date Submitted	Last Update

0008707	Valley 1	Suggestion - Balancing Issues		Jun 30, 2012 4:05 am	Jul 25, 2012 9:17 pm

Reporter	Nanashi	Assigned To	keith.lamothe
Status	resolved	Resolution	fixed
Fixed in Version	1.110

Summary	0008707: Multi-hit damage way too high.
Description	Now that Mossy Barrels are less annoying, can we get Insanity Burst Shrapnel damage from Insanity Burst Canisters toned down too? It does way over 350 damage on a point blank hit with multiple projectiles and is extremely difficult to see underwater. But doing this is only alleviating an underlying design flaw. Opinion - dying in 1 hit is never fun unless it's telegraphed well beforehand. Therefore, I suggest that getting hit should trigger a very very short invincibility period - call it the castlevania/megaman/metroid/cavestory flinch effect. This tones down spike damage and makes it possible to balance damage modifiers on bosses easily (if you need to do so in the future) without having to take shot types into account. (It also enables smaller sized boss rooms, leading to more intense encounters, but that's part of my evil secret personal agenda) I realise this decision may not be popular with the hardcore crowd, so being given the option to toggle it on and off at the difficulty settings would be nice.
Tags	No tags attached.

Internal Weight	Feature Suggestion

TechSY730 Jul 2, 2012 9:26 am reporter ~0026214	I think a invincibility period of like 1-3 [i]frames[/i] would do the trick. That would be short enough to make 50 "hitboxes" stacked on top of each other still extremely threatening, but you could still react to it and save yourself if you have reasonably high health and are quick.

NyQuil Jul 2, 2012 9:33 pm reporter ~0026255 Last edited: Jul 2, 2012 9:34 pm	I understand why they don't want to do this, however I agree with the frustration of getting killed by background objects. Don't know if it is possible, but I'd do it by differentiating between enemy damage, water/lava, and other damage. I'd only put the invincible frames on things from the environment, like the barrels or spikes, perhaps even include a knockback with it. (And the invincibility frames would only apply to that type of damage, so enemies and water and such would still hurt you.) If an enemy kills me quickly, I usually deserved it.

keith.lamothe Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm administrator ~0026346	For 1.110: * Halved the number of projectiles generated by an insanity burst canister to bring the total damage a direct hit can do down to a level that is more... sane? Hmm, maybe it was working as designed... As for the invincibility thing, Chris has already said no (based on a fair bit of prior experience with it). Possibly we can look at having the specific shrapnel sources share the existing "don't hit the same thing twice in one second" rule, but that would need to be for later. And even then I'm not sure that's what we want: the more central you are to the explosion, the more it should hurt. But yea, getting one-shotted isn't much fun. One note: while doing a 1-frame invincibility thing is physically possible it won't do what you're probably expecting because frames are not of a fixed simulation-length in AVWW as they are in AIW. So it could lead to dramatically different damage outcomes based on how hard the game was pushing your machine at the moment.

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
Jun 30, 2012 4:05 am	Nanashi	New Issue
Jul 2, 2012 9:11 am	tigersfan	Internal Weight	=> Feature Suggestion
Jul 2, 2012 9:11 am	tigersfan	Status	new => considering
Jul 2, 2012 9:26 am	TechSY730	Note Added: 0026214
Jul 2, 2012 9:33 pm	NyQuil	Note Added: 0026255
Jul 2, 2012 9:34 pm	NyQuil	Note Edited: 0026255
Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm	keith.lamothe	Note Added: 0026346
Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm	keith.lamothe	Status	considering => resolved
Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm	keith.lamothe	Fixed in Version	=> 1.110
Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm	keith.lamothe	Resolution	open => fixed
Jul 5, 2012 7:01 pm	keith.lamothe	Assigned To	=> keith.lamothe
Jul 25, 2012 9:17 pm	Matthew Carras	Relationship added	related to 0009017