View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0008724 | Valley 1 | Suggestion - Spell Ideas | Jul 1, 2012 2:19 pm | Jul 6, 2012 3:31 am | |
| Reporter | Kio | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Summary | 0008724: Air and Earth spells like Flamethrower and Geyser | ||||
| Description | As it is, Flamethrower makes weak to water, and Geyser weak to air... So why not continue that chain? A held thunderbolt spell (think Force Lightning), making weak to earth (cos when you're electrically charged, it takes earth to discharge you, which is worse than the bolt itself), and an earth-based Oil spray to make weak to fire (if that doesn't make sense already, there's no need to explain). It would then be beneficial to use all four in a cycle to boost the power of the next, and mastering the timing of such would be more dmg output than just holding down one key making a continuous spray (that i think i remember had once been complained is OP, and then the dmg was adjusted). More spray spells = more options >.< | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
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I think Air, in general, could use a few more offensive spells. Really there seems to only be Lightning Orb, Gold Boomerang and Summon Tornado. The rest are utility. |
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Air, though, has Ball Lightning, which is arguably all you really need :P. Anyway, as to the actual suggestion, I'd like to see a Light version that gives Entropy vulnerability and an Entropy version that gives Light vulnerability as well so all 6 elements have a vulnerability-inducer. I'd argue that the spells should be different in how they attack though to maintain some differentiation; light and air I'm thinking would fit a short "beam" (no projectile speed, just a solid attack beam that appears for as long as the attack is on), while Earth and Entropy would be slower and heftier; perhaps some kind of short-range expanding wave [sort of a ) shape] in a 30 degree cone that can get multiple targets if they are close enough. |
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omg my comment took too long to type that the tracker said it was invalid (did you submit twice? message)... I guess I should shorten it down quick. Ball lightning should not be your cookie cutter air spell. That much we should agree on. Also, opposite elements should be same spell type. Fire/Water is the same thing, with mostly different colors. Air/Earth should be, and so should Light/Entropy. I have two ideas on Air Earth. A. Fan-out Spray (up to 10-15 degree deviation from aim, held) B. Multi-targetting (none of these can be held for continuous effect) B1. Automatic Nearby (circle of fire range, with no-projectile) B2. Chain Attacks (hits multiple targets based on nearby) Fan Air - Has that fanning static look. Arcs can deviate up to 10-15 degrees both clockwise and counterclockwise from aim. Can help compensate for poor aim when jumping over enemy's head. Held makes the fan look. Fan Earth - Same thing, but with pebbles. A spray of pebbles over an area for lots of small damage to a fanning area. If held down, its damage really starts to stack up, especially if standing in front of an enemy, aiming at their chest, and the fan is hitting them from head to feet. Automatic Air - Like "paralyze" from pokemon, shocks encircle enemies in a nearby range, and hit the 3-4 (or more, depending on power of it) nearest enemies to you. No projectiles come out to where it hits, like Circle of Fire. Great for when you feel surrounded by don't know how to defend yourself against them all, or have trouble aiming when they're in impossible places compared to you, such as the small vertical spaces in a lieutenant's tower. Automatic Earth - Vines grip your enemies, wrapping around them from seemingly nowhere. Same thing, just without lightning and with plants. Chain Air - Or rather, chain lightning. The first bolt comes out, aimed, and shocks the enemy. From there, it finds which enemy is closest to it, within a range, and flies to that one automatically, but with a slight homing to compensate for possibility to miss moving enemies. Can still miss though. That's fine. Great for grouped enemies though, as it may pass back and forth between them for more dmg to a single target. Chain Earth - More vines. This time, like chain lightning, it shoots out aimed, as a projectile vine, and grabs the enemy, and then moves on to grab the next. As for Light and Entropy, those two should be the beams. Bright white and sparkly, and dark purple with otherworldly energy radiating. Beams should travel with moved aim if they're a super-short cooldown spell, like flamethrower/geyser, so they always point from you to where your mouse is currently aimed, so no residual beams as you sweep across an area. The beams should also not pierce, as they'd have a longer range than flamethrower/geyser, unless the damage on them was WAY dropped, which I don't like the idea of. And yes, this is the abridged version of my previous comment of suggestions. |
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This idea seems natural. My first thought after seeing Flamethrower and Geyser was "OK, where are the versions for the other elements?" That said, maybe there shouldn't be a Light (+ entropy weakness) one, simply because of Creeping Death. Would inflicting extra entropy weakness make Creeping Death OP? If so, I'd suggest there not being an Entropy (+ light weakness) one, simply because it looks weird if only Entropy doesn't have a spell like this; if it's Light and Entropy, you can imagine that it has something to do with, like... the other elements being of nature and having a cyclical balance to them, while light/entropy are different. Or maybe the Light one could somehow be really weak/difficult to use, to balance out the Creeping Death buff? Maybe the Light spell could deal very little damage, or heal(!) the enemy a little; expend some of your health, or force you to actually touch the enemy (which almost always means taking damage; since bosses deal the most melee damage, this would be a built-in balance against using this spell too much on bosses); maybe it would be hard to aim, like Stormy Sine. Or maybe an Entropy Boost isn't that OP, and it could just be relatively straightforward. ^^; unrelated P.S, @ Kio: When making a new report or adding a note, right before I post it, I always copy the body of my message (as in copy/paste) before clicking Add Note / Submit Report. It usually gives me the 'did you submit twice'? bug, forcing me to start all over...except that I have it on my clipboard, and can just paste it from there and submit it just fine ^^. I think it has something to do with spending too much time on a Mantis-webpage (without refreshing it, which would of course make what you're typing disappear) makes the submission process no longer work, forcing you to reload the page if you want to submit anything. I don't think it has to do with typing too much. But if it does, then at least you'll still have your superlong message in your clipboard, which you can then edit word by word - without having to start from scratch. (Or maybe you did that, your message actually was too long, and you actually did edit your earlier version word for word? ^^;) |
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I'd argue that a +Entropy version wouldn't make Creeping Death OP, no more than Geyser makes Ball Lightning OP. The need to get in close for these spells is a pretty good balancer already, so I'd say it's fine as is. I'd prefer the fans to the other two suggestions; however, I'd make Fan Air a "rapid fire" style, while Fan Earth would have higher cooldowns and be somewhat closer to a "shotgun" blast. |
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pyrrhic, i generally don't have that issue, but i swear that comment was immensely long. the earth multi-target alone, on the homing vines, took up more space than your entire comment. it's very possible it gave me that error cos my message was too long, not cos of time-out. also, Creeping Death is powerful yes, but what if the timer on the weakness to other element was shortened on the light/entropy beams, or the beams give a longer cooldown to ranged, almost forcing you to pick a melee option to get the bonus - say miasma whip? death touch? combine that with long range beam, and it balances nicely. If the cooldown on range is long enough to last most of the effect, the only way to make creeping death op would be to cast just in time that it's cooled and you can use the beam JUST before creeping death hits the target. which if you can pull that off, don't you deserve it, for perfect-comboing your skills? |
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Good point, BenMiff. I can see how getting in at close range is its own balancer. Being able to fire 1 Creeping Deaths at a range seems balanced against gaining 40% power, but having to move in close for that effect to trigger. Thinking about what you said about timers, Kio: maybe the timers on these weaknesses could be done away with - and instead, the weakness could last until your next attack against that enemy? I think this would make players less stressed out about "can I fire off the right spell within 3 seconds?" (which I think is the main reason players shy away from Flamethrower and Geyser), and would make the tactic of "first soften them up close with a weakening spell, then hit them hard with a more powerful spell" more tempting. The weakness only lasting for the next single hit would also make multi-hit spells (most notably, Creeping Death) receive less of a bonus, since the bonus would only apply the first time the spell hit. It would be nice if this mechanic also made melee-only fighting more tempting - eg, alternately hitting between the Light and Entropy version of this skill. |
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Perhaps that would work, the next hit thing, but it would still have to last a short while, so you can't use it, and then save the bonus dmg for when you get the best clear shot, maybe 20 seconds later. This could also balance for multiplayer. With the change in boss HP increase, two players with creeping death and 1 with the shining light beam could take down the toughest overlords in just moments, as long as the beam is sustained... As for melee, that makes me think. And this should come as an alternate suggestion, if it sounds ok enough, but perhaps an increasing dmg boost, to some boost cap, with each melee hit without using a ranged spell, as an incentive to use melee, and to give a compensating bonus to those who want to go all melee, preferring less magic (like my boyfriend, a hammer warrior in most games, who doesn't like this game for a lack of great melee options, and all the most useful being melee "spells", like miasma whip or leafy whip) |
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It doesn't seem like it'd be that OP. Shining Light would only give the next Entropy attack a 40% or so bonus, right? it'd probably cause more damage for two players to use Creeping Death, instead of one using CD and the other using Shining Light. Plus, constantly moving into melee range of a boss is usually dangerous - more so than keeping your distance and sniping. If you combo'd with these spells, you would sort of get a damage bonus already; just keep switching to the currently weak element. I think you should go ahead and make your melee suggestions an officially separate thing. I suggest that you somehow encourage it to also be a discussion about how to improve melee, in general - since I believe most players only use ranged attacks for attacking, and use close-range melee attacks just for harvesting (with the exception of Arc of Luminance(correct name?), which is really just a longish-range spell that happens to have melee effects. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 1, 2012 2:19 pm | Kio | New Issue | |
| Jul 2, 2012 10:01 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Jul 2, 2012 10:01 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Jul 2, 2012 6:02 pm | ZCaliber | Note Added: 0026237 | |
| Jul 2, 2012 6:40 pm | BenMiff | Note Added: 0026240 | |
| Jul 3, 2012 10:14 pm | Kio | Note Added: 0026282 | |
| Jul 4, 2012 6:48 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026294 | |
| Jul 4, 2012 7:22 am | BenMiff | Note Added: 0026296 | |
| Jul 5, 2012 3:07 am | Kio | Note Added: 0026325 | |
| Jul 5, 2012 8:08 pm | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026352 | |
| Jul 6, 2012 12:14 am | Kio | Note Added: 0026365 | |
| Jul 6, 2012 3:31 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026368 |
