0015048: Science/Construction bonus applied twice for goons - DEV Arcen

ID	Project	Category		Date Submitted	Last Update

0015048	The Last Federation	Balance Issue		May 8, 2014 11:14 am	May 12, 2014 1:56 pm

Reporter	Ragwortshire	Assigned To	keith.lamothe
Status	resolved	Resolution	fixed
Product Version	1.016 (Finish Him!)
Fixed in Version	1.017 (Back From A Long Quest)

Summary	0015048: Science/Construction bonus applied twice for goons
Description	Researching techs that give bonuses to Science (like Basic Subatomic Theory) reduces the amount of time future techs take to research for the player (just as for other races). But it also increases the effect of Scientists on each project, meaning that as the Science bonuses mount up the effect of even a few scientists becomes massive. For example, let's say a project has a base length of 500 months (so this would be a very powerful tech). With no modifiers we would need 495 scientists to research this in the 5 months minimum time. With a 3x modifier we would need just 54, with a 5x modifier we would need 19, and with a 7x Science Multiplier (the best you can get for the early game, I believe) we only need 10! The practical upshots of this are: - Before researching the Science techs, buying scientists is pointless. - After researching these techs, you can just blast some armadas (or whatever) to get the 5000 credits or so, buy 10 scientists, and research basically any tech you like in 5 months. Thus you can effectively research 3 such techs every year, and the other races have no chance whatsoever of keeping up. The influence gained from distributing the tech will outweigh the loss from blowing stuff up to get the credits on all but the hardest difficulty levels (and maybe even then!). By abusing this I was able to complete a Nightmare/Misery game in under 30 game years - that's how long it took for the Peltians and Skylaxians to conquer the system together with their OP tech. I don't think this is a helpful mechanic and it seems impossible to balance just by tweaking the tech costs. A similar phenomenon happens with the Construction bonus techs (Matter Compression/Transmission).
Tags	No tags attached.

Internal Weight	New

Drak May 9, 2014 3:41 am reporter ~0037777 Last edited: May 9, 2014 4:36 am	Wouldn't the solution be to simply not give the goons any bonus speed? Soo 500 months/7 (for 7x tech bonus) = 71.4, now you need 66 (or 67) science goons to take that to 5 months (after the rounding). That's a fine solution to me, and fixes some other problems as well. Goons would need to be repriced accordingly, which also devalues the random science/construction goons you get from pilot pickups. Double checking the math gives: (5 months hydral + 66 months goons) = 71 months * 7 science rate = 497 months (the 500 required after rounding). Works for pre-researched techs (1/3 time for race already has): 500/3/7=23.8 (rounded to 24) - 5 = 19 goons (aprox 1/3, difference created by hydal minimum 5 months now being worth more). Back checked: (5+19)37=504 (research completed)

keith.lamothe May 12, 2014 1:56 pm administrator ~0037899	For 1.017: * Fixed a bug where science/worker goon effectiveness was being multiplied by your science multiplier. ** Since the overall number of months needed to research the tech was already factoring in science bonuses... yea. The magnified effect allowed researching very high-end techs in a not-very-many-months even early in the game. Thanks :)

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
May 8, 2014 11:14 am	Ragwortshire	New Issue
May 9, 2014 3:41 am	Drak	Note Added: 0037777
May 9, 2014 4:29 am	Drak	Relationship added	related to 0015020
May 9, 2014 4:31 am	Drak	Note Edited: 0037777
May 9, 2014 4:33 am	Drak	Relationship added	related to 0015061
May 9, 2014 4:36 am	Drak	Note Edited: 0037777
May 9, 2014 4:50 am	Drak	Relationship added	related to 0014962
May 9, 2014 4:51 am	Drak	Relationship added	related to 0015062
May 12, 2014 10:02 am	Chris_McElligottPark	Assigned To	=> keith.lamothe
May 12, 2014 10:02 am	Chris_McElligottPark	Status	new => assigned
May 12, 2014 1:56 pm	keith.lamothe	Internal Weight	=> New
May 12, 2014 1:56 pm	keith.lamothe	Note Added: 0037899
May 12, 2014 1:56 pm	keith.lamothe	Status	assigned => resolved
May 12, 2014 1:56 pm	keith.lamothe	Fixed in Version	=> 1.017 (Back From A Long Quest)
May 12, 2014 1:56 pm	keith.lamothe	Resolution	open => fixed