View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0017618 | Stars Beyond Reach | Suggestion | Oct 2, 2015 1:11 pm | Oct 3, 2015 11:20 am | |
| Reporter | ptarth | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 0.912 (Act II, Pollution, Blueshirts V2) | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 0.915 (Happy Air, Happy Wallet) | ||||
| Summary | 0017618: Some thoughts on Pollution in .912 (possibly 0.913) | ||||
| Description | I don't like pollution in 0.912. I dislike the brownouts on random buildings. To counteract it I have to have a surplus in everything. It frequently hits police and fire, making it look like I have a massive problem, but it is an illusion which will go away the the brownout next turn. Effectively, the problem is I can't get information about my pollution situation at the level of the territory or have a way to deal with it or its effects very well. My only solution is to keep adding hazmats where I have power loss. I liked the previous versions of how pollution was modeled, but disliked the abruptness of the effect curve. Perhaps something with a gentler curve such as the following: Three general tiers of pollution producers: low (residential & commerce), medium (light industry), and heavy (heavy industry). Let's arbitrarily put them at low 10, medium 40, heavy 100. Hazmat would clean per tile (let's say 50). Pollution is generated in clouds per the previous methods (.9 and earlier) and moves around per previous methods (.9 and earlier). Pollution cleaning works per previous methods (v3 era), X is removed per tile (in territory) each turn PRIOR to movement and effect calculation. Define total pollution on a tile as PollutionValue If pollution is over a building you control it counts towards your global pollution level. If pollution is over a building that produces something, production is equal to 1/exp(PollutionValue/100) For pollution values 0 through 500 by .5, (i.e., 0, .5, 1, 1.5,...) the efficiency is: 1.00 0.61 0.37 0.22 0.14 0.08 0.05 0.03 0.02 0.01 0.01. So production drops to 37% if you are under a 100 PollutionValue cloud (i.e, you are next door to a factory. For buildings that have workers, Workers are injured as: 1-1/exp(PollutionValue/100/5) For pollution values 0 through 500 by .5, (i.e., 0, .5, 1, 1.5,...) the percentage workers injured (that are currently working) is: 0.00 0.10 0.18 0.26 0.33 0.39 0.45 0.50 0.55 0.59 0.63 So for a 100 PollutionValue cloud would make 18% of the workers injured. For buildings that have injured or diseased workers, they are killed as: 1-1/exp(PollutionValue/100/5) (same formula as getting injured in the prior case) So for a 100 PollutionValue cloud would make 18% of the injured workers dead. Turn Order Fill buildings with people Calculate and apply all building effects (changes later in the turn will not change this. This defeats the chicken & egg problem. This includes healing injured and sick workers). kill diseased workers with disease Kill injured & diseased workers with pollution Injure workers with pollution Injure workers from other sources of injury To summarize: A building with 100 people under a 100 PollutionValue Cloud (a factory next door), without cleaning would suffer: turn worker dead sick well 1 1 100 0 0 0 2 2 100 0 18 82 3 3 100 3 32 65 4 4 100 6 43 51 5 5 100 8 52 40 6 6 100 9 59 32 7 7 100 11 64 25 8 8 100 12 68 20 9 9 100 12 72 16 10 10 100 13 75 12 11 11 100 14 76 10 12 12 100 14 77 9 13 13 100 14 78 8 14 14 100 14 79 7 15 15 100 14 80 6 16 16 100 14 81 5 17 17 100 15 81 4 18 18 100 15 81 4 19 19 100 15 81 4 20 20 100 15 81 4 And so on... If you have enough hospitals you could keep it at turn 2 status forever. You'd have injured workers, but they'd be healed in time for their next pollution dose next turn. Each race could also have a racial pollution sensitivity coefficient. (e.g., Krolim are resistant to pollution, Fenyn are very sensitive). The Krolim would treat 200 units of pollution as 100 units, the Fenyn would treat 75 units of pollution as 100 units. And so forth. Caveat I haven't gotten a large enough chance to work with pollution in .913. As it stands I've been having issues with the rogues and lack of income from Peltians. However, I'm pretty sure this will still stand given my understanding of the patch notes. Conclusion I think this method will make pollution a problem for the player, but not one that is overwhelming. It uses the majority of in place systems and code. It is based on the pre-existing versions, but just tones down the degree of the effect of death and injury due to pollution. It will use the pollution clouds from the prior version to guide the player in making decisions that are relevant and provide readily understandable measures of pollution at the hex and territory level. On an aside: Pollution modelling prior to .91 took the form of individual entities, each of which was manipulated sequentially and individually. I don't have the depth of coding skill or familiarity with Unity that you guys have, but it seems that a series of arrays representing the cells on the map would be less resource intensive. To simulate the wind drift, there would be three arrays, each with the next member of the array corresponding to the direction the wind would shift. The main array would have all pollution values multiplied by .8 and would be shifted 1 higher (80% of the pollution goes east 1). The two secondary arrays would have all of the pollution values multiplied by .1 and would be shifted 1 higher (which would correspond to north or south respectively). Additional variation and randomness could be applied, but the base case would be this. Again, this is what I'd do if I was coding this as a simulated model, but I have no idea how well it would work inside of Unity. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Some of that is a possibility. But, a couple of things: 1. Version 0.913 had a number of key bugfixes and balance fixes to pollution. It would indeed have been incredibly aggravating in 0.912. 2. Not being able to really see the full amount of what you have there is an issue that is to be addressed in the next few days with a better interface for that with services in general. Number 2 I think is a much wider problem, and fortunately one that a solution is already specced for and in the pipeline. I'd like to delay much further discussion on this until after that's in place and then re-evaluate. My first instinct after this would be to make it so that pollution brownouts are only something that cause a partial disablement of buildings rather than a full disabling. Or, alternatively, it could just charge you a chunk of money. There are actually some interesting possibilities down that direction. I agree with you that the current setup is not perfect by any stretch, but I think it's not something that needs to be made TOO complex. Having a sense of lack of control over your city is a really rotten feeling, though, I understand. I like things that can cause death spirals and brownouts and whatnot, but there have to be effective ways to combat those. I can think of several straightforward mechanics that would allow us to do that, so that would be good. |
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I feel the need to suggest the possibility of creating a viable polluted dystopia, perhaps not for all the races but a couple of them e.g. krolin, Just to get on the nerves of your neighbours or just because as a dictator you're plain evil. Think about it in a similar vein like sim city where you can take the heavy industry/ cheap/ poor/uneducated workers route, have a functional city and become rich. |
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Yeah, I think that's an extremely good point actually. The mechanics as they are for pollution might be fine at this point (0.914). However, we might need some ways to say "that brownout stuff doesn't happen even though the smog is still there." Having that be a way to either save or make money, but cost you something else, definitely interests me. Probably military prowess or something. |
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Ya got me. ;) * Pollution no longer causes brownout-like effects on buildings in territories. Pollution is just far too much in flux and too capricious for this to be viable. ** Now pollution instead has a much smaller effect in general unless it gets really really bad. You have a reduction in crowns and science and a few other things generated in a territory, basically. ** So if you want to have a non-primary territory that is a smog-hole, then by all means you can. You can even intentionally generate a ton of smog that drifts over to sensitive races like the Fenyn, and down their productivity indirectly by that. ** Generally speaking you're advised to keep your main territories where you're doing your main business pretty smog-clear, but it's not some dire problem like trash or dead bodies anymore. |
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Ok, you need to add a facebook style "like" button on mantis now!!! |
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Hahahaha. :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 2, 2015 1:11 pm | ptarth | New Issue | |
| Oct 2, 2015 1:25 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0043221 | |
| Oct 2, 2015 1:25 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Oct 2, 2015 1:25 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => feedback |
| Oct 2, 2015 2:47 pm | gnosis | Note Added: 0043228 | |
| Oct 2, 2015 3:41 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0043230 | |
| Oct 2, 2015 4:59 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0043231 | |
| Oct 2, 2015 4:59 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | feedback => resolved |
| Oct 2, 2015 4:59 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 0.915 (Happy Air, Happy Wallet) |
| Oct 2, 2015 4:59 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 2, 2015 8:00 pm | gnosis | Note Added: 0043236 | |
| Oct 3, 2015 11:20 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0043264 |
