View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001993 | AI War 1 / Classic | Bug - Other | Dec 11, 2010 2:16 am | Dec 15, 2010 1:32 pm | |
| Reporter | MaxAstro | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 4.048 | ||||
| Summary | 0001993: Counterwave guard posts have a really long timer | ||||
| Description | Not sure if this was fixed in the latest release (didn't see anything in the patch notes) or if this is WAI, but the last couple counterwave guard posts I popped came with 15 minute timers, which made preparing for them rather trivial. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
| related to | 0002045 | minor fix for later | Chris_McElligottPark | Short timers for counterwave guard posts |
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That was changed some versions ago to make them easier to handle. Personally I kinda like this delay. |
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The change was to compensate for the waves being extra tough, which is now fixed. Given that there's an AI that flings these types of waves as a regular process, there isn't much need for something that takes more than 6-8 minutes to arrive. |
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Yeah, with the Counterattack post's waves having been pared back considerably, this does end up coming off as a bit silly. I'd say either make them a bit nastier or reduce the timer again. |
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The timing is intentional; given that it can hit you anywhere (without a warp jammer) and the wave sizes are generally significantly higher than normal waves, it's generally not trivial at all ;) |
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But I can make them a bit fiercer, if y'all think that's desirable please submit an appropriate mantis record ('Buff Counterattack Posts' or whatever) and we'll see how the voting goes. Given the history of the unit I don't want to go buffing it just because of a few player comments without hearing what others have to say. |
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A shorter timer would actually be beneficial. When I pop them now it ends up with lots of just waiting with my fleet at the proper planet for the timer and clearing the wave before I can move on. It pretty much just means pushing the speed to +10 for some minutes because NOTHING is happening. The biggest problem factor with the counterposts right now is the long boring boring time drain of just waiting for it. 6 minutes might be too low in general to get back though. 15 minutes might actually be too low on snake maps at all in some random rolls. |
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Well, with 15 minutes if you really need to you can build transports to handle the transfer. Unless your fleet is more than 3 hops outside your territory, in which case you might be better scrapping and rebuilding the slower ships ;) I'm waiting before changing anything because I want to know if Chris wants these to be buffed back up to the point where you _want_ 15 minutes to get ready (not nearly as bad as they were, but significant) or if we want to drop the timer to avoid slowing things down, or some combination of the two. So Suzera, I'm guessing that the counterattack posts are no longer either the most dangerous non-disable-able mechanic nor a non-decision because you never want to trip them? :) |
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If they are supposed to be unusually large, then that is wrong with them instead - the counterwaves I got were much smaller than the regular waves I was getting at the time. Mark III ships aren't scary enough that a counterwave of 130 Mark III ships (40 of which turned out to be younglings) was worse than the wave of 900 mark I bombers I got shortly before that. |
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The time is not the relevant part of the difficulty really. The human ship cap vs wave size is. The bigger they get, the more they become early-game only or you have to nudge down your difficulty so everything else is more trivial in comparison. More time to prepare will do NOTHING if they players do not have the ship cap to defend against it, and at best increasing the wave size too much will promote save scumming to get it to randomize as weak and far away from the HW as possible if the player wants an adequate difficulty for the other 99.9% of the game. The wave size seems perfectly fine right now. Your fleet should ALREADY be built to ship cap and just needs to move there. Your turrets are all probably built elsewhere for regular wave purposes and those don't move so you have 15 minutes to...move your fleet to the planet and then wait for 5-10 minutes. |
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Alternately if you increase wave size too much, they just go back to being "this planet doesn't count. Ignore it." Either way, you have a trivial majority of the game, or entirely skipped planets. Neither of those are particularly interesting. |
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I think I would prefer smaller-than-normal waves that come with almost no warning to big waves you have forever to prepare for. The biggest thing about the counterwave guard post is that it can strike anywhere - I think the whole point of that is wasted if you have forever to prepare for it. |
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That would actually probably be a much nicer idea than making it 15 minutes and possibly way above human ship cap capability if the rest of the game is at the right difficulty. That way they get a much better chance to blow things up, you can still prepare for it, AND you always have enough ship cap to deal with it since it is less than regular waves. If that route is taken, make them not spawn so far out so they aren't slowed at the start too, so it's harder to respond to. It would also mean you have to decide how much of your fleet you split off for defense, instead of leaving it ALL out attacking then bringing ALL of it back in that 15 minutes. I mean, you ALREADY get infinite time to prepare, since you decide when to blow it up. |
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Just to snipe this: A friend and I were playing the other day (cheats enabled, only for 'infinite' resource income: mmm omega devices) and we popped a counter attack, murdered the planet, took out its two neighbors, looked at each other (with 3 minutes left), and said "I'll take out the wave, you go take that string of planets over there." And while having infinite income means rebuilding your fleet much faster, this was all accomplished by starting with a full fleet and not replenishing (every 20-30 minutes I'd go nab the 30-100 units that got rebuilt while I was busy and add them to my fleet). So it wasn't even that much of an inconvenience. Personally I'd drop the time to 5-7 minutes, especially on the higher difficulties. 5 minutes should be more than enough to maneuver a fleet into place / build turrets, while at the same time being an immediate threat. |
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I agree with the time, it could be lowered by a few minutes and it wouldn't hurt too much. With transports, and time-space being AI wave free now, there really isn't a reason you can't get a fleet to where you need to go in a lower time limit, aside from snakes. For snakes, I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to scrap part of your fleet and relocate it there. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 11, 2010 2:16 am | MaxAstro | New Issue | |
| Dec 11, 2010 2:30 am | Toll | Note Added: 0005943 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 3:48 am | Sigma7 | Note Added: 0005944 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 3:52 am | Vinraith | Note Added: 0005945 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 9:06 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005951 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 9:06 am | keith.lamothe | Status | new => resolved |
| Dec 11, 2010 9:06 am | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Dec 11, 2010 9:06 am | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Dec 11, 2010 9:08 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005952 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:20 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005984 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:20 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005984 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:22 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005984 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:22 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005984 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:49 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0005987 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:56 pm | MaxAstro | Note Added: 0005988 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 6:59 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005990 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:00 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005990 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:03 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005990 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:05 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005991 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:06 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005991 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:09 pm | MaxAstro | Note Added: 0005992 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:11 pm | Suzera | Note Added: 0005993 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:12 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005993 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:12 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005993 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:13 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005993 | |
| Dec 11, 2010 7:13 pm | Suzera | Note Edited: 0005993 | |
| Dec 13, 2010 4:16 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0006123 | |
| Dec 15, 2010 11:25 am | Winter Born | Relationship added | related to 0002045 |
| Dec 15, 2010 1:32 pm | rustayne | Note Added: 0006213 |
