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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0022904AI War 2Balance IssueMar 1, 2020 4:48 pm
ReporterEcthelon Assigned To 
Status closedResolutionfixed 
Product Version2.006 Hotfix 
Summary0022904: What are AI dragons and why have they wiped my fleet in 20 seconds?
DescriptionDirect your attention to the attached save. The world towards the middle-right of the map where I was performing a spire archive hack covered by my spire units. I don't know what these units are or why they appeared before my very eyes but they have 300 more strength combined than every mobile unit I have. How? Why? What?

They wipe my spire fleet (already half dead seconds into the combat in that save) without my killing a single one of them.
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 12:51 pm

reporter  

Dragon apocalypse.save (1,842,447 bytes)
Dragon apocalypse.savemet (86 bytes)   
UK
684268935
16156
Scourge
<color=#66ffce>Easier </color> Full Ensemble
Difficulty 7
0
Dragon apocalypse.savemet (86 bytes)   

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm

reporter   ~0056226

Here is the autosave about a minute before they appear. Seems to happen consistently.
Autosave.16080.save (1,849,712 bytes)
Autosave.16080.savemet (86 bytes)   
UK
684268935
16080
Scourge
<color=#66ffce>Easier </color> Full Ensemble
Difficulty 7
2
Autosave.16080.savemet (86 bytes)   

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm

reporter   ~0056227

description="Extremely advanced vessel, deployed to defend against the newly arrived Spire threat."

They're intended to prevent you from sniping the Overlord with early Spire Fleets, because it turns out that was entirely possible. It spawns 1 when a City is built.

BadgerBadger

Mar 1, 2020 12:58 pm

manager   ~0056228

The AI gets Dragons in the Praetorian Guard, as part of the Extragalatic Response to the Spire fleet. They are therefor limited to the immediate environs of the AI homeworld.

The unit description explains this: "Extremely advanced vessel, deployed to defend against the newly arrived Spire threat".

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 1:02 pm

reporter   ~0056229

So this is intended? That seems absurd. As I said, they wipe my entire spire fleet in seconds without me killing a single one of them. It's insane. If the rest of my forces were there it would probably take a full minute but I would lose HARD. What can I even do about this? Have more spawned every time I've built a new city? As far as I can tell this means that building up a spire fleet is never ever worth it.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 1:05 pm

reporter   ~0056230

Last edited: Mar 1, 2020 1:07 pm

Your Cities aren't leveling up due to not having enough planets without Cities, so your Spire are weaker than they should be. 9 planets for 6 Cities is really low. For reference, a save I have with 9 Cities (which is where the first MK5 City comes in) has 24 planets captured. MK7 City (13 Cities) requires 36.

https://wiki.arcengames.com/index.php?title=AI_War_2:_Fallen_Spire

That may be useful. Some of it could be clearer in-game I guess, but the Cities do mention what's stopping them if you have full detail tooltips.

EDIT: It spawns only 1 Dragon per City. They don't come back.

EDIT 2: For reference the 9 City fleet has over 1,800 S. At that point you could wipe out the 9 Dragons fine.

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 1:10 pm

reporter   ~0056231

Oh damn. I guess that does explain it. I hadn't realised my cities could level more. It's quite hidden away in the tooltips so maybe this could be clearer? I could easily see other people making the same mistake.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 1:50 pm

reporter   ~0056232

Last edited: Mar 1, 2020 1:50 pm

It's been made a bit clearer.

On another note, I tried the auto-save, but with quickly getting another planet for two Cities to level up, and destroying the Magnifier on that planet. Was nearly able to kill every Dragon once - the last one had 13% hull before the last Spire ship was lost. I'd imagine with some more ships (from the marked Cities) it'd be possible to win it more consistently than that setup, then it'd be free to move onto the AI homeworld after some rebuilding.

In other tests 1 Dragon still has most of the hull left, but it is kinda doable. It'll get easier after.

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 2:07 pm

reporter   ~0056233

I've advanced a bit. I expected more levelling after what you said though. 24 planets seems insane to me but I've always played low AIP.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 2:11 pm

reporter   ~0056234

Eh, from memory it starts to get larger. At higher Marks the Fleets start to get extra Cruisers and Battleships, then eventually the Flagship becomes a Dreadnought.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 2:15 pm

reporter   ~0056235

Here's what 9 City and 13 City looks like for you.
9 City.jpg (388,534 bytes)
13 City.jpg (428,950 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 2:18 pm

reporter   ~0056236

Here's a Dreadnought at MK7.
Dreadnought.jpg (81,009 bytes)   
Dreadnought.jpg (81,009 bytes)   

RocketAssistedPuffin

Mar 1, 2020 2:24 pm

reporter   ~0056237

Last one. MK5 Battleship (you get multiple of these eventually).
Battleship.jpg (77,044 bytes)   
Battleship.jpg (77,044 bytes)   

Ecthelon

Mar 1, 2020 4:00 pm

reporter   ~0056241

Well I got there. Attached save shows how I ended up winning. Thanks for telling me how it works.

Full disclosure: They started building a Nemesis so I panicked and attacked the enemy homeworld. Turns out I had more than enough.
Manual.savemet (86 bytes)   
UK
684268935
20365
Scourge
<color=#66ffce>Easier </color> Full Ensemble
Difficulty 7
0
Manual.savemet (86 bytes)   
Manual.save (2,055,366 bytes)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Mar 1, 2020 12:51 pm Ecthelon New Issue
Mar 1, 2020 12:51 pm Ecthelon File Added: Dragon apocalypse.save
Mar 1, 2020 12:51 pm Ecthelon File Added: Dragon apocalypse.savemet
Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm Ecthelon File Added: Autosave.16080.save
Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm Ecthelon File Added: Autosave.16080.savemet
Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm Ecthelon Note Added: 0056226
Mar 1, 2020 12:56 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056227
Mar 1, 2020 12:58 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0056228
Mar 1, 2020 1:02 pm Ecthelon Note Added: 0056229
Mar 1, 2020 1:05 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056230
Mar 1, 2020 1:06 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0056230
Mar 1, 2020 1:07 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0056230
Mar 1, 2020 1:10 pm Ecthelon Note Added: 0056231
Mar 1, 2020 1:50 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056232
Mar 1, 2020 1:50 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0056232
Mar 1, 2020 2:07 pm Ecthelon Note Added: 0056233
Mar 1, 2020 2:11 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056234
Mar 1, 2020 2:15 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: 9 City.jpg
Mar 1, 2020 2:15 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: 13 City.jpg
Mar 1, 2020 2:15 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056235
Mar 1, 2020 2:18 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: Dreadnought.jpg
Mar 1, 2020 2:18 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056236
Mar 1, 2020 2:24 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: Battleship.jpg
Mar 1, 2020 2:24 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0056237
Mar 1, 2020 4:00 pm Ecthelon File Added: Manual.savemet
Mar 1, 2020 4:00 pm Ecthelon File Added: Manual.save
Mar 1, 2020 4:00 pm Ecthelon Note Added: 0056241
Mar 1, 2020 4:48 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Status new => closed
Mar 1, 2020 4:48 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Resolution open => fixed