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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0024178AI War 2Balance IssueDec 14, 2020 11:27 am
ReporterCrabby Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product Version2.638 Why Do We Fall, Master Wayne? 
Fixed in Version2.704 MP Notifications And Mapgen 
Summary0024178: Unit Type Rebalance: Raiders and Daggers + Warbird Frigates
DescriptionGoing through playthroughs, I've noticed that there are some ship types that could use rebalancing.

Raiders and daggers in particular are about as cheap (metal-wise) as v-wings, but have higher dps and a noticeably high engine power score (gx), rendering it immune to spiders' engine-stunning effects (but not v-wings), tractor beams, and concentrated gravity arrays. Immunity to tractor beams, and concentrated gravity arrays are fine, but I think raiders and daggers could use a lot less hull; they're fast, inexpensive metal-wise, and DURABLE (hull points-wise). It gets annoying whenever AI raiders and daggers flee the planet before I can destroy them.

Other players have noted how overpowered the Raid/Light tech combination is. I have attached comparisons among MKIV V-wings, daggers, velociraptors, raider, and pulsar tanks. I believe the v-wings, pulsar tanks, and velociraptors are fine, but raiders and daggers seem to have a lot of hull points compared to other units of the same mark. Heck, raiders have hull points comparable to pulsar tanks but are much cheaper. I think this would make raiders and daggers too evasive, but if it was the intent for them to have high hull points, then so be it.

Major counters to these ships include agravic pods and aggressors (which are uncommon to come by but counter high gx ships; this also includes pesky frigates), concussion corvettes and devastator frigates (anti low-armor), trinium sniper turrets and flagships (hurts low-albedo ships; again, uncommon), warbird frigates and paralyzers (paralyzers; affect other strikecraft as well), brawler frigates and v-wings (engine-stunners; affects strikecraft), and snipers and trippers. Regarding agravic pods and aggressors, I would think there need to be more ship types that counter either high gx ships or fast ships, or make them more common, or reduce the hull points of the raider and dagger units or make them more costly metal-wise. This goes for both players and the AI.

I've noticed warbird frigates, in addition to being cloaked, are much faster than assault frigates but have the same hull and shield strength. I think the warbird frigates could use a slight (not too major) reduction in the hull and shield strength. I'm not sure if this should apply to ripper frigates, consider that these can only attack one target at a time.

Perhaps I'm complaining too much or unreasonable. I just want to make sure units are not too unbalanced.
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

Crabby

Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm

reporter  

Dagger MKIV.png (182,988 bytes)   
Dagger MKIV.png (182,988 bytes)   
Raider MKIV.png (179,711 bytes)   
Raider MKIV.png (179,711 bytes)   
Pulsar Tank IV.png (260,319 bytes)   
Pulsar Tank IV.png (260,319 bytes)   
V-Wing MKIV.png (232,458 bytes)   
V-Wing MKIV.png (232,458 bytes)   
Velociraptor MKIV.png (211,793 bytes)   
Velociraptor MKIV.png (211,793 bytes)   

Arides

Nov 30, 2020 5:29 am

reporter   ~0059800

Seconded. Currently fast raid and/or ambush fleet is a first pick, since the ships are immune to pretty much anything except paralysis, are fast, cheap *and* have high hp and damage. Right now, a 20strength raider/dagger fleet can eventually win against at least tripple enemy size, assuming a factory is reinforcing. I don't believe any other composition is capable of doing that.
Some of potential balancing factors for raider/dagger:
- Have way lower durability
- Have lower armor to get punished by anti-light damage (<=40mm)
- Be a tad more expensive (cca raptor cost)

Crabby

Dec 13, 2020 1:25 pm

reporter   ~0059945

Another unit I've failed to mention and could use rebalancing is the warbird frigate. This frigate is as fast as a Raid or Apparition frigate, but has the same hull and shield strength as an assault frigate.

Arides

Dec 14, 2020 10:35 am

reporter   ~0059951

To me warbirds seem fairly balanced (albeit strong in early game), since their damage is negligible. They are a fast, durable disabling ship, but trying to have them actually kill something is straight up tragic. The only reason to ever shoot them is to avoid their disable, which in my mind justifies their bulky stats.

Chris_McElligottPark

Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am

administrator   ~0059953

Thanks!

* The shield points of all the raiders and their variants have been dropped dramatically, while their hull points remain the same.
** Additionally, the metal costs of raiders have been almost doubled. This extra specialization and power of them, when compared to V-wings is now something you have to have a more robust economy to support.
** And finally, their armor rating has been dropped from 50mm on most of them to 30mm, and from 30mm on the drones down to 10mm, making them vulnerable to anti-light-armor attacks.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby New Issue
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby File Added: Dagger MKIV.png
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby File Added: Raider MKIV.png
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby File Added: Pulsar Tank IV.png
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby File Added: V-Wing MKIV.png
Nov 29, 2020 3:37 pm Crabby File Added: Velociraptor MKIV.png
Nov 30, 2020 5:29 am Arides Note Added: 0059800
Dec 13, 2020 1:25 pm Crabby Note Added: 0059945
Dec 13, 2020 1:27 pm Crabby Summary Unit Type Rebalance: Raiders and Daggers => Unit Type Rebalance: Raiders and Daggers + Warbird Frigates
Dec 13, 2020 1:27 pm Crabby Description Updated
Dec 14, 2020 10:35 am Arides Note Added: 0059951
Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am Chris_McElligottPark Status new => resolved
Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => fixed
Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am Chris_McElligottPark Fixed in Version => 2.704 MP Notifications And Mapgen
Dec 14, 2020 11:27 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0059953