View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0026620 | AI War 2 | Bug - Gameplay | Mar 5, 2022 6:43 pm | Mar 13, 2022 5:18 am | |
| Reporter | Wuffell_1 | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | assigned | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 4.000 Return From The Endless Beta | ||||
| Summary | 0026620: Issues when Flagship Orders are set to Stationary | ||||
| Description | This is part feedback about the recent change, and partly about reporting bugs with the same feature. When Flagship Orders is set to Stationary Flagship Mode, you used to be able to hold Ctrl to force them to follow an order. It used to be great for sending a flagship through a wormhole. Now, you have to hold down Z instead of Ctrl, meaning that you need to hold down both Ctrl and Z and right-click, in order to send some ships through a wormhole. This feels weird to me. What makes this feel worse to me is that right-clicking another planet in the galaxy view doesn't move the flagship. Overall, this feels really janky to me and I don't see why it was changed. The change also seems to have created some related bugs. I have a spire ship (normal flagship orders) and a transport (in Stationary Flagship Mode) selected at the same time. I go to the galaxy view, hold Z and right-click a planet ... and my transport ship goes, but not my spire ships. I experimented and found that Z only works for flagships in Stationary Flagship Mode. If you have other ships selected that aren't in Stationary Flagship Mode, they ignore the commands. This makes it incredibly annoying to have a ship set to Stationary Flagship Mode and one set to Follow All Orders, as you can't issue one set of orders that all ships will obey. Queuing in Stationary Flagship Mode also seems broken. Previously, an amazing feature was to queue up moving to another planet and then unloading. Now, I hold down Z and I give it the orders to go to another planet and then unload ... it correctly goes to the other planet, but it doesn't unload. I couldn't figure out how to queue the ship to move to another wormhole and then unload. Overall, it seems to me that changes to the Stationary Flagship Mode aren't working well. I'm also curious what the changes were trying to achieve, as frankly the change doesn't seem to make sense to me, but it has also created these two bugs. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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You may be interested in this issue where some of that discussion took place last summer: https://bugtracker.arcengames.com/view.php?id=24808 |
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Thanks. I think this is the problem: From Chris's post: "** Secondly, now for flagships in general, if you wish to hold down Z while giving an order even when it is NOT in stationary flagship mode, that order will be treated as if it is in stationary flagship mode for that order only." I'm guessing those were in favour of the change don't play with Spire ships. To see what I mean and why I find this very frustrating: Start a game with the Spire. I suggest using the mode were you start with a Spire ship, as it's really quick to see what I mean. Select the Spire ship and the transport at the same time. In my opinion, this is vital when playing with the Spire. Now for the testing. Try to go to another wormhole normally. This will result in the Spire ship and the transport's smaller ships being sent through, but the transport stays behind. This is a very bad idea if your transport is on a dangerous world, cos your ship may get crippled. So, of course this requires you to move the ship separately. Try to move while holding down Z. This results in the transport and its ships moving, but the Spire ship stays put. I now realise this is the result of the line I quoted above. Again, you have to move the fleet separately. That shows why the current setup is a bad idea; it requires you to move things twice, when you have a normal transport and a Spire ship selected. Instead of a Spire ship, I'm sure the same thing would happen with lone wolf fleets. I don't know why others haven't reported this issue exists, but I know people used to use the original Stationary Flagship Mode. I even saw a PSA about it, though I'm struggling to find that site. I vaguely understand the desire to have this new mode ... but why wipe out a valid playstyle, instead of making a new mode to do this new thing? Something like Fleet Command mode or whatever. Anyway, it can't be a big thing to people, otherwise there would be bug reports, but I have to imagine this change bugged other people. I guess I'm a year or more too late to object to the changes lol, but I much preferred the Stationary Flagships when they were just Stationary Flagships, instead of when they did their rallying point stuff. I liked when they just stayed put where you left them, and other ships you had selected followed your command. That was amazing for being on an enemy world and hiding your flagship away from danger. As it is, having one fleet Stationary and one fleet not, plus the quoted line above, is causing this issue. It only causes a problem when some selected fleets are Stationary and some aren't. My quick-fix suggestion is that the code is modified so it checks what orders all selected fleets have. If any fleets are in Stationary mode, holding down Z forces them _all_ to act as if they weren't in Stationary mode. If someone wanted to bring back the old non-rally version of Stationary Flagship mode, where they just sit still till you hold Ctrl, that would be awesome, but likely more time-confusing than it's worth. Ctrl was best for that mode, though, as you can just hold it when sending ships through the wormhole. No extra keys pressed, so the original way was the best. But if someone wanted to bring back this mode, it would need to be called something else, as the current Stationary Flagship Mode looks to be a viable playstyle option. |
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At the top, I should have said, that quoted line isn't the problem, that sounded overly negative! I should have said that's what's causing the issue ... the idea to temporarily enable Stationary Flagship Mode sounds valid, it's just causing the issues whenever a combination of fleets are selected, which have different orders. |
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I tested with an Ark ship in normal mode and a transport in Stationary Flagship mode. Holding down Z makes the transport and its ships move, but the Ark doesn't move. So it's not just Spire ships. Making Z more intelligent and turn Stationary Flagship Mode off when there's mixed modes would be a solution. It would still be annoying to have to do this, simply to mimic the old mode which keeps transports as safe as possible, but it would at least fix the bug, I would also be interested to know exactly how people keep their transports safe when assaulting enemy worlds. Personally I find a cloaked transport ship is safest when it goes to the enemy world, instead of staying behind, where it could be de-cloaked and blown up by roaming enemy ships. But I always considered the old Stationary Flagship Mode to be the safest thing for transports. I'd love to be proven wrong so I can improve my game! |
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Note that the above suggested fix would only tackle the first problem, and not the queuing issue. |
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I also spotted the tooltip for Flagship Orders has a typo in the first sentence. "Some flagships are meant for fighting, while orders meant for hanging back." Please change orders to others. |
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Aha ... I tried the non-Stationary mode and I see now the transports stay put if the rest of the fleet is given orders to attack things. So I can simple use the normal mode as I used to use Stationary mode. Not sure when that changes, but that makes me happy. No wonder people weren't complaining about the Stationary mode ... So I withdraw comments about restoring the old mode, cos it's pretty much still there! I'd still suggest the bugs are fixed :D |
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Actually, I'm slightly wrong ... flagships will follow move commands, but not attack commands. So if I'm invading and want my fleet to attack some specific guard posts, the transport doesn't move like a dummy. Still perfect for what I want. |
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Do we need the stationary mode at all at this point? Also, I'm having trouble parsing the above to know exactly what issues still remain with that mode. |
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I do think it's useful to have and would recommend against removing it. I'll let Wuffell summarize what issues/suggestions they think remain if they wish. |
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I'll let you decide if this is a bug or if it's okay :) 1) start a game with the Spire-Infused faction 2) set the normal transport to Stationary Flagship Mode 3) select the Spire ship and the transport at the same time 4) send the ships to another planet normally. This will result in the Spire ship and the transport's smaller ships being sent through, but the transport stays behind. This isn't a bug, but it's not good; if your transport is on a dangerous world, it'll get crippled soon. So, of course this requires you to move the ship separately, by holding down Z and moving the ship. This isn't a bug as such, it just demonstrates that trying to move a normal transport and a Spire ship can't be done at once, at least not using standard movement. But what about holding down Z to bypass the Stationary mode? 5) select the Spire ship and the transport at the same time 6) Hold down Z and try to send the ships to another planet. This time, the transport and its ships moves, but the Spire ship doesn't move at all. This is because the Spire ship pretends to be in Stationary Mode. Further testing showed it happens with other ships, not just Spire ones. Essentially, when I have a normal transport in Stationary Flagship Mode, and a Spire ship selected at the same time, there seems to be no way to move everything to another planet at the same time. This means anyone using that combination has to use two movement commands every time to move those fleets. I think the fix is to change the code when holding down Z to this: If _all_ selected fleets are in normal mode (ie not SFM), execute the orders as if all fleets were in SFM Else [if all are in SFM, or some fleets are in SFM and some are in non-SFM], execute all orders in the non-Stationary mode. If that change is made, if you have mixed fleets and hold Z, you'll actually be able to move all fleets with one command Hopefully that explains it! Quickly following the example should help :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 5, 2022 6:43 pm | Wuffell_1 | New Issue | |
| Mar 6, 2022 7:00 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0065158 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 4:54 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065182 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 4:58 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065183 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 5:26 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065184 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 6:08 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065185 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 6:15 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065186 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 7:06 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065190 | |
| Mar 7, 2022 9:44 pm | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065208 | |
| Mar 10, 2022 12:26 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0065345 | |
| Mar 10, 2022 12:26 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Mar 10, 2022 12:26 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => feedback |
| Mar 10, 2022 12:40 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0065349 | |
| Mar 13, 2022 5:18 am | Wuffell_1 | Note Added: 0065403 | |
| Mar 13, 2022 5:18 am | Wuffell_1 | Status | feedback => assigned |
