View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0027040 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Apr 19, 2022 4:20 pm | Apr 20, 2022 6:55 pm | |
| Reporter | Dismiss | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 4.024 Graveyard Digger | ||||
| Summary | 0027040: expatriate lines in fleet research are underpowered | ||||
| Description | Look at the following choices in fleet research... Even without considering the fleet bonus(s) (which are a huge deal) the parasite is higher mark, does 10x the dps, and has a better abililty. The electropulse tank which i don't have a screenshot of, is also always the underdog in any pick i've ever had in fleet research. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| duplicate of | 0027015 | new | Eletropulse Tank needs to be buffed. |
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Sage, I think you have some opinions on Expatriate balance. Could you share them here? |
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Sure. FWIW I did make a comment on 0027015, another report of the same general issue by Dismiss. Basically the issue is that the expatriate lines were added by CRCGamer, who is as good if not better at balance as anyone is, to allow a reasonable option in Expert+ which disable the fleet bonuses. They aren't intended to be on equal footing with FRS ships that have the fleet bonus active, and if they were to get buffed to the point where they are it would be broken for Expert+. I think there are a few options here: 1. Accept that some assets are just better than others. It is already the case that some capturable fleets are far better than others, same with assets in ODSS, and to a degree in ARS/TSS/etc. This is the solution I would favor, and that would mean that this reported issue is not a problem. One possible change that could be done to make it more palatable would just be to add a third item available in the FRS for more choice, but it wouldn't change the fact that some of them are going to be better than others and that's just the way it is. 2. Remove the expatriate lines entirely and just seed the standard FRS ones. Some players have said they don't think the fleet bonus ships are worth it without the fleet bonus (I disagree), and that would make FRS structures useless to them on Expert+. Hence why CRC proposed the expatriate alternatives. 3. Remove FRS entirely from Expert+. This was not done because removing content has been deemed something to avoid. 4. Restore the fleet bonus to Expert+. I could not be more strongly opposed to this; it would single-handedly break most of the balance achieved there, and at least for my part, make those campaign types something I would no longer want to play as opposed to the current situation where I am highly satisfied with Logistician. Worth noting here that a number of other players agreed during the design period of this that there was/is no effective way to appropriately balance FRS fleet bonuses. |
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So, from what I can tell, the expat ships you see in FRS are the same stats as the ones also available at the human resistance-specific hack structure you see, with human resistance in the game, correct? Looks like the ones from the non FRS station hack just have 'defender' in name and no aip cost but identical stats. Therefore, removing them from fleet research wouldn't be removing content. Which would be my suggestion. If the original point of them was to replace the existing fleet bonus ships in expert+ games, but the ability to have different ships per campaign type doesn't exist, then they shouldn't be in the pool. They are diluting the pool in a way that makes FRS choices feel weird and mostly automatic. I just can't think of any reason i'd pick them. If you want them, play with human resistance. If you don't want fleet bonuses, they are already off, in expert+. Everyone wins? |
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No. There are a few reasons why here. 1) The HRF beacon doesn't have these FRS balanced ships available in the first place. The main thing you are looking for there is some off-brand guardians. 2) The expat ships are balanced around how cheap the tech is for at least the first two ranks (and thus reaching full line size) and making it so that it isn't as hard a reach to use the tech for outguard as well. 3) The base FRS ships are just objectively overpowered and could do with a haircut to their free starting mark levels to be honest. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 19, 2022 4:20 pm | Dismiss | New Issue | |
| Apr 19, 2022 4:20 pm | Dismiss | File Added: image.png | |
| Apr 19, 2022 5:20 pm | Strategic Sage | Relationship added | duplicate of 0027015 |
| Apr 19, 2022 6:44 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0066150 | |
| Apr 20, 2022 5:52 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0066201 | |
| Apr 20, 2022 5:53 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066201 | |
| Apr 20, 2022 6:21 pm | Dismiss | Note Added: 0066203 | |
| Apr 20, 2022 6:22 pm | Dismiss | Note Edited: 0066203 | |
| Apr 20, 2022 6:55 pm | CRCGamer | Note Added: 0066204 |
