View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0005730 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Feb 10, 2012 12:22 pm | Feb 25, 2012 10:47 am | |
| Reporter | Spikey00 | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 5.024 | ||||
| Summary | 0005730: Logistic stations => boost turret ranges and nullify enemy radar damp | ||||
| Description | Since economic and military stations grant double friendly movement speed (where'd that come from, anyway?), it's best if we give the logistic station something more unique. Knowing it halves enemy ship speed, I'd suggest it become a command station purposed for kiting: allow it to boost the ranges of friendly defenses on the planet, and allow it to nullify hostile radar dampening (raid starships, anyone?). MK1 logistics - Double friendly movement speed - Halves enemy movement speed - Increases range of turrets by 15%? MK2 logistics - Double friendly movement speed - Halves enemy movement speed - Increases range of turrets by 30%? - Counters radar dampening MK3 logistics - Double friendly movement speed - Halves enemy movement speed - Increases range of turrets by 50%? - Counters radar dampening - Prevents teleportation If the range buff is overpowered on fleet ships, then the buff should only apply to turrets. As it stands they are not very useful; I've only really _needed_ the MK3 for the anti-teleportation. Gravity turrets are relatively cheap in knowledge, and brings all hostile ships to 8/5/2 speed instead of a universal multiplicator (which is far less effective). As a side note, please clarify the description of the logistic station. It boosts ships beyond twice their value, contrary to the description and buff tag. I'd like the exact +% value being listed. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
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Possibly. I have no particular reason to use Military-IIs or Logistics-IIs, and have never unlocked Logistics-IIIs. Perhaps it a difficulty <8 experience, but teleporting ships are not that damaging to forcefields. |
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The speed doubling effect was introduce to compensate for the removal of the "implicit" speed doubling that all human ships got all the time. |
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I generally use MK3 logistics to counter counterattacks with attritioners when I have a lot of extra extra knowledge and not enough forcefields. MK3 teleport raiders only need 1563 shots to destroy an III forcefield, so the damage quickly adds up when you get a mob of them knocking. Covering border worlds with this is a bonus. |
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I was under the impression that logistics further double friendly move speed again. |
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Somebody did a post on this. Logistics give the same boosts as the Zenith time space manipulators in terms of friendly speed boosts. The strange thing is that it was neither a flat multiplier nor a flat addition. It was dependent on base ship speed, giving less speed boost to those with more base speed. No one is sure of the formula used in code. |
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Yeah, I did that a while ago using the in-game reporting (no actual speed test). The logistics increases player ship speed by a flat rate which is then doubled. Each Zenith-ST adds 20, which can also be doubled. So, Fighter of speed 76: -> (76+40)*2 = 232 at CmdLog-I (equiv. to 2 zenith-ST) -> (76+60)*2 = 272 at CmdLog-II (equiv. to 3 zenith-ST) -> (76+80)*2 = 312 at CmdLog-III (equiv. to 4 zenith-ST) Logistics are generally useful to boost slow ships, i.e. plasma siege starship @ speed 36 - slowest in the fleet: -> (36+40*2) = 152. ...six times faster than an AI vorticular-cutlass on the same planet! (Since its speed is halved). In fact the only thing that can catch *any* ship on a Log-I planet, I think, are raptors, spirecraft rams, neinzul bombers, neinzul viral swarmers, and spire blades. Add a Zenith-ST and we can safely remove the neinzuls. Since the above ships are rare, I've long thought that CmdLog-I is sufficient. Logistics are also very useful in the sense that they reduce the travel-time ratio - your plasma-siege do not take twice the time to go anywhere than the rest of your fleet. |
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as some1 who uses logistics commands only (of all marks), I wouldn't say no to a buff :D I've found them to be very attractive for my playstyle and I succesfully beat 7/7 and 8/8 games with them. People seem to underestimate the effect of movement speed (of both players and enemies) in strategy games (Temporal towers in Defense Grid anyone?). And I certainly wouldn't say no to a turret range increase buff. I won't even need the counter radar rampening. |
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@zoutzakje: well all command stations buff allied ship speeds by 100% already, so the fleet is already moving around 150 median speed. The first tier gravity turrets cost only 750 knowledge and already bring everything down to 8 speed, which as I mentioned is a lot more useful than simply halving enemy ship speeds. MK2/3 military stations are a lot more useful for buffing the attack power which amplifies the total damage your ships do vs logistics now. 100% buff from MK3 basically means you get twice the number of ships and turret effectiveness, full tachyon range, and constant teleportation of enemy units. Pair up with gravity turrets and it makes the logistics redundant. As for reducing travel time with your main fleet, transporters and human warp gate rallies exist for this reason. @zharmad: that's exactly the information I want listed with the logistic description, instead of just "everything moves double speed" buff listing. |
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Personally, what I like in Logistics is that they are useful to provide a simple way to slow down enemies on less defended (near-)border planets without investing a lot of research and resources for things like gravity turrets and spider turrets. I think of Logistics as a poor man's solution for slowing enemy ships where you may not want to leave too much defense, buying time to move your defenders in. One such situation would be if you have a rather spread out border, requiring to leave more mobile defense on that border and mainly only turrets on planets that are one step away from that border. Also, Logistic stations have a slightly higher resource income than Military, if I'm not mistaken, making them economically more interesting in the same cases. |
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@Spikey00: Transporters are great but when reacting to raids that manage to punch through the border, sometimes in the heat of the action it's not worth it (either it's too much trouble for too little a distance to cross, or you don't have nearby transports nor resources to build some). Also, in that specific case, Warp Gates don't really help, do they? :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 10, 2012 12:22 pm | Spikey00 | New Issue | |
| Feb 10, 2012 12:32 pm | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Feb 10, 2012 12:32 pm | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Feb 14, 2012 9:48 am | zharmad | Note Added: 0019091 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 9:49 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0019092 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 1:36 pm | Spikey00 | Note Added: 0019126 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 2:51 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0019136 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 2:55 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0019138 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 2:56 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0019138 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 8:47 pm | zharmad | Note Added: 0019152 | |
| Feb 14, 2012 8:51 pm | zharmad | Note Edited: 0019152 | |
| Feb 22, 2012 6:23 pm | zoutzakje | Note Added: 0019615 | |
| Feb 22, 2012 6:37 pm | Spikey00 | Note Added: 0019617 | |
| Feb 22, 2012 6:38 pm | Spikey00 | Note Edited: 0019617 | |
| Feb 22, 2012 6:38 pm | Spikey00 | Note Edited: 0019617 | |
| Feb 25, 2012 10:43 am | dorenthas | Note Added: 0019775 | |
| Feb 25, 2012 10:47 am | dorenthas | Note Added: 0019776 |
