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IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0000664AI War 1 / ClassicBalance IssueOct 20, 2010 3:01 pm
Reporterthemachineissentient Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product Version3.717 
Fixed in Version3.800 
Summary0000664: regular fleet ships do not hold up very well against the AI
DescriptionThis is a generic balance defect, that probably just needs to be considered and slightly tweaked. It looks like the starships and guardians for the AI has been incredibly buffed, 1 million HP for guardians and 7.5 million HP for a regular starship.

My Mark one Fleet ships have about 48,000 HP, or similarly low numbers. Even bombers, which are supposed to be able to counter heavy hull types, are dying very quickly to starships that have multiple blasts from the guns. I lose entire groups of bombers pretty quickly.

So, there are a couple things you can do here... Changing the hull type, increasing HP, ... I'm sure you can come up with something. For right now, it feels like regular fleet ships just can't go up against guardians that have multiple blasts of incredible damage, giant HP, while my starting ships are basically made of aluminum and can't even close range enough to exploit their damage multiplier. This is especially visible when going against artillery guardians.
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Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 17, 2010 1:20 pm

administrator   ~0001137

For sure, I have notice this problem also.

Draco18s

Oct 17, 2010 1:45 pm

developer   ~0001146

I haven't checked out 3.717 yet, but are you throwing bombers at guardians that have a hull that bombers are good against? Flak Guardians should be countered with fighters (or frigates, because frigates are immune to AoE; the fighters will need constant repair, but have a damage bonus).

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 18, 2010 10:37 pm

administrator   ~0001262

Seem better in 3.718?

themachineissentient

Oct 18, 2010 10:39 pm

reporter   ~0001263

I haven't had much luck. I am posting a new screenshot. Hybrid hives level V, this is in a planet adjacent to my starting planet. I just lost my whole fleet.

themachineissentient

Oct 18, 2010 10:40 pm

reporter  

AIWar 2010-10-18 22-38-07-52.jpg (126,482 bytes)   
AIWar 2010-10-18 22-38-07-52.jpg (126,482 bytes)   

themachineissentient

Oct 18, 2010 10:40 pm

reporter  

Early loss.sav (361,979 bytes)

themachineissentient

Oct 19, 2010 8:48 am

reporter   ~0001298

I will test this again, but I did build several of the initial starships before I invaded. I think what makes my play style a little bit different is that I don't research riot control starships immediately or even spend my initial research on starships at all. From a balance perspective, should the first planet be able to be taken with the initial units? That is the test I performed.

I think with the changes to the regeneration chamber, the idea of using fleet ships in a variety of scenarios becomes a lot more tenable. Also, the buff to the bomber starship should help.

keith.lamothe

Oct 19, 2010 8:52 am

administrator   ~0001299

"From a balance perspective, should the first planet be able to be taken with the initial units?"

Yes, definitely, at least on reasonable difficulties and as long as you're not talking about a mk IV planet here ;)

themachineissentient

Oct 19, 2010 8:54 am

reporter   ~0001300

Yes, it's a normal planet. I'm going to build the capacity of all the initial units and try again. It may also be a AI type. Difficulty seven. Experimentalist and I forget the other one.

keith.lamothe

Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am

administrator   ~0001301

And does it have guardians? We very recently changed it so that guardians are not seeded on planets-adjacent-to-the-human-homeworld, but I don't know that it would "correct" previous saves.

But yea, I'd figure that on diff 7 versus a MkI planet on a non-excruciating AI type (perhaps there should be a category select for that) I'd expect victory with significantly less than full caps of fighters, bombers, and missile frigates. With recent balance changes maybe need to throw in a light starship or two.

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm

administrator   ~0001553

I think it's safe to mark this one as done:

* The health for all fleet ships is now 40% higher. The intent here is to make them a little sturdier, and that's hard to do when their base health is just so low.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Oct 17, 2010 12:55 pm themachineissentient New Issue
Oct 17, 2010 1:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0001137
Oct 17, 2010 1:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Oct 17, 2010 1:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status new => confirmed
Oct 17, 2010 1:45 pm Draco18s Note Added: 0001146
Oct 18, 2010 10:37 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0001262
Oct 18, 2010 10:37 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status confirmed => feedback
Oct 18, 2010 10:39 pm themachineissentient Note Added: 0001263
Oct 18, 2010 10:39 pm themachineissentient Status feedback => assigned
Oct 18, 2010 10:40 pm themachineissentient File Added: AIWar 2010-10-18 22-38-07-52.jpg
Oct 18, 2010 10:40 pm themachineissentient File Added: Early loss.sav
Oct 19, 2010 8:48 am themachineissentient Note Added: 0001298
Oct 19, 2010 8:52 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0001299
Oct 19, 2010 8:54 am themachineissentient Note Added: 0001300
Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am keith.lamothe Note Added: 0001301
Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0001553
Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status assigned => resolved
Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm Chris_McElligottPark Fixed in Version => 3.800
Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => fixed
Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am Chris_McElligottPark Category Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue