View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0007625 | Valley 1 | Suggestion | May 8, 2012 2:08 am | May 11, 2012 4:58 pm | |
| Reporter | Toll | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.010 | ||||
| Summary | 0007625: Remove mana! | ||||
| Description | I posted this on the forums some time back, and since there were no immediate complaints, I'll post it here too. Have some copypasta: The idea is simple at its core, but given that it's a big change, I don't think it'll happen until at least AVWW 3.0. But heck, who knows, you might be inspired! The core of the idea: Remove mana! Simple, yes? Of course, other changes will have to happen in order to facilitate it, so the post won't end here. So, why should this happen? For one, it will make balancing spells far far easier without the limited-yet-unlimited resource that mana is today (which is compounded even further with the preserving mind enchantment). In addition, it will allow for further specialisations for characters (right now, I completely ignore mana upgrades; heck, I play with a character with 40 max mana right now). Of course, there are things that do rely on max mana or mana regeneration at the moment, most notably storm dash, shields and some high-powered spells. I'll go through these point-by-point. Storm Dash: Frankly, I don't see a need to fix this. Let people storm dash without any kind of limit if they want to; they already can with enough tiers in Storm Dash anyway. Suggested changes to tiers: Increased speed and/or decreased damage increase. Shields: Yeah, this is the only one I haven't managed to come to a conclusion on. Suggestions include: Change elemental weaknesses/resistances (fire shield would give 50% resistance to fire and 50% extra damage from water etc), or limit them in duration (a shield can only be up for ten seconds before needing to be turned off). High-powered spells: This one is actually really easy to fix: Change the requirement to magic power instead. Need to cast meteor? You'd better have a magic power of at least 130%. With the removal of mana, there's the problem of suddenly only having two stats to increase. It's easy enough to add a third though; just re-introduce casting speed in the form of magic control. This would work exactly like the current cooldown enchantments. It would also add in another condition for limiting spells (and even combination-limiters; for instance, the meteor shower spell could require both a high magic control and a high magic power). Now, I'm sure I've missed some other things that need fixing, but that's what the forums are for! Full forum thread: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10567.0.html | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
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This is especially needed for dealing with the higher mana req spells, I want to use the cooler entropy spells, but with a base mana cost of 400, I'd rather pick spells I can actually cast no matter the character. |
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Completely obliterating mana is a great idea. Sure, the core game does revolve around it to some degree, but it's not that important. What I mean by that is mana's own statistic is the worst. You really never have to worry about it anyway and I know that I hardly upgrade it. But if it does get removed I feel we'd need to see more character customization. Perhaps I'll make a suggestion sometime soon, but I am all for the removal of mana currently. |
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Now that there is no longer a way to reduce the cost of spells, Mana's gating effect on spell use is very strict now. It used to be that you could cast some really strong spells on 200 mana characters if you stacked enough -mana cost. Now, you either can or cannot cast a spell based on your mana stat. What if there were a "Spell Lore" or "Spellcraft" ability that could be upgraded. Basic spells would all be tier 1 and given to the guys with the 40 mana now. More complex spells require a higher spellcraft stat. Easier to see the difference. |
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I'm all for this - perhaps instead of Mana limiting everything, we could have a seperate solid statistic involving "magic power/ability" that is static but random for each character. The era they were from could determine how powerful of a spell they could cast. You know, either that, or, well, everybody's free to cast everything. That's cool, too. |
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I'm actually kind of against this. I like the methodology of using mana as a limiter on spellspam and as a gateway. While alternative setups could be workable, I don't like the idea of completely infinite ammo, especially once the theoretical crest system goes in to allow further customization of spells. Mana would be a big balancing factor there too. |
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I'm ambivalent about this. While I feel that mana is not the issue it should be, I don't exactly feel that it needs to be removed to fix it. Instead you could have mana regen stop for 2 seconds after casting a spell. Then even if you increase everyone's mana pools, it'll become more of an issue and something people watch. Voila, mana has become an issue without being too crippling. This would encourage tag team hit and run tactics where one person moves out to do his attack, while another one regens a second. It'll encourage finding shelter periodically to avoid attacks while you regen. It'll also make spell cost and efficiency a bigger issue. |
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It needs a bit more thought, but I'd definitely support "Magic Power" or "Magic Skill" being a stat that replaces mana. Each spell would require a certain level of "Magic Skill". Thus some like Energy Orb or Entropy Whip would have a low skill level (1 or 2) so anyone can use them, but spells like Creeping Death would have a very high level (10 or more!) so that only magically-inclined characters can cast them. To compensate, each spell would have a cooldown time that's related on it's Magic Skill requirement. Simple spells like Entropy whip would be largely like they are now: almost zero cooldown. But spells like Creeping Death could have a 5 or 6 second cooldown. You would be able to level up a character's Magic Skill 1 level at a time. Thus a Medieval character that starts with a magic skill of 1 or 2 could have it boosted up to cast higher level spells if the player so desired. A skill above a certain level would give some sort of bonuses, maybe in cooldown or duration. Definitely a concept worth exploring |
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Mana adds more tactical depth to fights, which is why it's used by many games. If it's not balanced at the moment then we need to balance it. |
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The Magic Power stat doesn't make sense to me. It seems like we're basically just removing mana in order to create an arbitrary gateway stat? What makes this better than Mana in general? What exactly is the problem with Mana? If you don't upgrade Mana (I do, I like the improved regen speed because I like to dual-fire) that's a perfectly legitimate choice. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| May 8, 2012 2:08 am | Toll | New Issue | |
| May 8, 2012 7:36 am | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| May 8, 2012 7:36 am | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| May 8, 2012 8:35 pm | Prezombie | Note Added: 0023803 | |
| May 9, 2012 10:17 am | infestedandy | Note Added: 0023855 | |
| May 9, 2012 8:21 pm | Penumbra | Note Added: 0023902 | |
| May 9, 2012 11:01 pm | r 1 | Note Added: 0023910 | |
| May 11, 2012 12:07 pm | Remliel | Note Added: 0024052 | |
| May 11, 2012 1:47 pm | Chthonic One | Note Added: 0024065 | |
| May 11, 2012 4:16 pm | Nanostrike | Note Added: 0024092 | |
| May 11, 2012 4:37 pm | Quaix | Note Added: 0024094 | |
| May 11, 2012 4:58 pm | Remliel | Note Added: 0024097 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General Idea => Suggestion - General |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Suggestion - General => Suggestion |
