0016659: Dystopian Disease Saves

ID	Project	Category		Date Submitted	Last Update

0016659	Stars Beyond Reach	Balance Issue		May 12, 2015 11:20 am	Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm

Reporter	ptarth	Assigned To	Chris_McElligottPark
Status	resolved	Resolution	fixed
Product Version	0.815

Summary	0016659: Dystopian Disease Saves
Description	Chris wanted some saves of cases where disease is destroying your cities to check on balance. I'm adding some here, feel free to do likewise.
Tags	No tags attached.

ptarth May 12, 2015 11:20 am reporter	810 boarine plaguily delicious sea.save (772,641 bytes)

ptarth May 12, 2015 12:56 pm reporter ~0040700	I don't know who posted it, but this ggg.save is certainly relevant.

ptarth May 12, 2015 12:57 pm reporter	ggg.save (424,069 bytes)

nas1m May 12, 2015 3:10 pm reporter	815-disease.save (594,333 bytes)

nas1m May 12, 2015 3:11 pm reporter ~0040706	I attached another save (815-disease). In this case, the Ooze has already raged for quite some time and I have reached a stalemate. As far as I can see I have done everything I can to combat the disease, but with not luck.

nas1m May 12, 2015 3:13 pm reporter	814-disease-not-ending.save (742,981 bytes)

nas1m May 12, 2015 3:13 pm reporter ~0040707	As a related issue I also added 814-disease-not-ending, which is exactly what it says on the tin: The disease should be long gone, but it doesn't go away.

ptarth May 12, 2015 3:51 pm reporter ~0040708 Last edited: May 12, 2015 3:51 pm	Well, the first problem is that so much of your population is infected. That makes the spreading pretty terrible. Effectively everyone has it and gets it as soon as they are decanted. Quarantine does not impact the spread rate of Toxins. However, it still cuts the birthrate, so you aren't getting clean population added to the pool very quickly. The solution: Turn on Toxin Screening. Turn off Quarantine. Watch your graveyards fill. The situation should stabilize in approximately 10 turns or so. If you manipulate your population so they are in hospitals you should be able to cut down that time.

ptarth May 12, 2015 4:02 pm reporter ~0040710	No idea what's going on with that last guy with Alveolar Decay. He isn't spreading the disease, toxin screening does nothing. Perhaps it is a rounding error? Amusingly, he is able to cause insanity damage to several buildings per turn, he gets around.

CricketMask May 13, 2015 4:50 am reporter	JJL first game evar.save (1,100,817 bytes)

CricketMask May 13, 2015 4:51 am reporter ~0040720	Oh yeah, I remembered I don't have deleted my saves so I have disease saves too! I hope I'm not posting them too late and am annoying people now, more saves the better right? :D

CricketMask May 13, 2015 4:52 am reporter	Doing really bad.save (1,074,721 bytes)

CricketMask May 13, 2015 4:54 am reporter ~0040721	First game ever is, well my first game ever. This going on in the disease xP Doing really bad is more of an aftermath really, but I'm still having disease, still getting little crowns and being paralyzed for a while. I don't remember if there was some other reason I abandoned that save I also have zenith save where you can see from disease tab I have had tons of diseases, but there isn't any ongoing disease. Its the game were diseases paralyzed my city and then grial spawn bug destroyed half of it. Should I post that save too even though I don't have any ongoing disease, just history of tons of ones?

crazyroosterman May 13, 2015 4:56 pm reporter	DISEASEY NESS.save (1,032,889 bytes)

crazyroosterman May 13, 2015 4:58 pm reporter ~0040749	my save is quite a few patches old I gave up on it because evreytime I managed to get rid of a disease(usually by slaughtering everyone with toxic screening)enougher 1 or 2 would pop eventually I just gave up and went f it and started a new game.

ptarth May 16, 2015 3:31 am reporter	821 Peltians disabling wounds people.save (577,049 bytes)

ptarth May 16, 2015 6:58 pm reporter ~0040922 Last edited: May 16, 2015 7:11 pm	821 Peltians Surprise Lobsters - Amidst a Saucer Invasion I pick up 10 diseases in approximately 10 turns.

ptarth May 16, 2015 6:59 pm reporter	821 Peltian surprise lobsters.save (624,673 bytes)

ptarth May 16, 2015 6:59 pm reporter	821 Peltian not curing enough.save (604,917 bytes)

ptarth May 18, 2015 4:49 pm reporter ~0040976 Last edited: May 18, 2015 4:51 pm	Reading over the patch notes I found: If a race -- player or AI -- already has a disease in a city, then their chances of getting another disease go down increasingly with each disease that they have. Hopefully this helps to avoid some of the worst dystopian disease cities, although it won't eliminate them by any stretch. It will make them rarer, anyway. The situation right now is that you can get a disease it will infect 60% of your population, a turn later a new disease and another 60% of your population, etc. This change would reduce this, but it seems heavy handed. I would favor a method where the amount of individually infected individuals is scaled based upon the number of wounded citizens you can cure in a round. The more hospital coverage you have, relative to your population, the "earlier" you detect a new disease. This would result in fewer people being infected. In contrast, if you have very little hospital coverage, relative to your population, the larger number of citizen affected. Example: The Peltian have 10k population and have 1k worth of wounded citizen repair ability. When they detect a new disease only 500 people have gotten it already. The Burlusts have 10k population and have 10 worth of wounded citizen repair ability. When they detect a new disease, its because everyone has it already. The amount might be something like: InfectionRateofDisease * MaximumPopulation/WoundedHealedPerTurn/RacialDiseaseSensitivity Baseline Disease Sensitivity is some parameter to kludge things into looking nice. This could be extended to have a disease "hidden" until detected. It would then spread and affect things per normal, but you just don't know why. This would probably be very confusing to players, so while more realistic, it is probably much less fun. Also on that note: When you have multiple diseases how does it calculate the impairedness of population per building?

jerith May 18, 2015 5:42 pm reporter ~0040986	What about taking a different tack and having the number of people you can cure scale with vaccine progress and total number of cases seen? For example, you could have the cure rate (and quarantine/screening effectiveness) start at zero and increase by 1% of your hospital capacity for every ten infections until you get to 100% after a thousand infections. (Perhaps base this on total population rather than static counts.) After that, vaccine research could start kicking in and giving you an extra bonus to cures proportional to the vaccine progress. That way, diseases could start with smaller initial infected populations and be guaranteed some amount of spread before you get a handle on it. You get a few turns between the disease showing up and the peak impact, which makes it much less of a sudden unexpected disaster, but you still have a major problem that you need to deal with along with everything else going on.

jerith May 18, 2015 6:03 pm reporter ~0040987	Some further thoughts: * Doing things the way I suggest gives you a natural scaling of infection with hospital capacity like ptarth suggested. (That's what gave me the idea, actually.) If you have more hospitals, you're better able to deal with the initial cases and head off exponential growth. * This also interacts in an interesting way with the infection resistance bonus. The lower infectivity keeps more of your population healthy, but it also increases the ramp up time for your cures to become effective. I haven't done the maths, but I think this means that epidemics would have longer but gentler opening phases and then be quicker to mop up when your doctors know what they're doing. * The decreased cure effectiveness is per-disease, so overlapping epidemics might be in different phases. If disease one is nearing its peak (assuming enough doctors, quarantine, and mortality to cure/cull faster than the infection rate) when disease two hits, the effect is different than if disease one is losing ground or still ramping up. * This is a similar kind of change to the saucer warp-in mechanic, in that it allows some time for preparation before the full horror is unleashed, but the gameplay effect is quite different.

jerith May 18, 2015 6:07 pm reporter ~0040988	My last two notes probably belong in a forum thread or something rather than this ticket. I'm not very good at following things on forums, though, so I'd appreciate it if someone could link or copy/paste this to wherever it may be relevant (or let me know where that is so I can do it).

ptarth May 22, 2015 1:42 pm reporter ~0041055	Fenyn Disease Disaster. A highly infectious sloth 100% toxin has destroyed this game. I can't finish building the CDC (which still takes much too long to build). I'm losing 300 people per turn. Income is effectively 0 due to sloth. First turn infection was 50% of the population, Toxin screening immediately turned on. Only solution is to burn through population and rebuild.

ptarth May 22, 2015 1:42 pm reporter	824 Fenyn Disease death.save (592,869 bytes)

Chris_McElligottPark Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm administrator ~0041802	Diseases finally balanced a bit back. :)

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
May 12, 2015 11:20 am	ptarth	New Issue
May 12, 2015 11:20 am	ptarth	File Added: 810 boarine plaguily delicious sea.save
May 12, 2015 12:56 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0040700
May 12, 2015 12:57 pm	ptarth	File Added: ggg.save
May 12, 2015 3:10 pm	nas1m	File Added: 815-disease.save
May 12, 2015 3:11 pm	nas1m	Note Added: 0040706
May 12, 2015 3:13 pm	nas1m	File Added: 814-disease-not-ending.save
May 12, 2015 3:13 pm	nas1m	Note Added: 0040707
May 12, 2015 3:51 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0040708
May 12, 2015 3:51 pm	ptarth	Note Edited: 0040708
May 12, 2015 4:02 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0040710
May 13, 2015 4:50 am	CricketMask	File Added: JJL first game evar.save
May 13, 2015 4:51 am	CricketMask	Note Added: 0040720
May 13, 2015 4:52 am	CricketMask	File Added: Doing really bad.save
May 13, 2015 4:54 am	CricketMask	Note Added: 0040721
May 13, 2015 4:56 pm	crazyroosterman	File Added: DISEASEY NESS.save
May 13, 2015 4:58 pm	crazyroosterman	Note Added: 0040749
May 16, 2015 3:31 am	ptarth	File Added: 821 Peltians disabling wounds people.save
May 16, 2015 6:58 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0040922
May 16, 2015 6:59 pm	ptarth	File Added: 821 Peltian surprise lobsters.save
May 16, 2015 6:59 pm	ptarth	File Added: 821 Peltian not curing enough.save
May 16, 2015 7:11 pm	ptarth	Note Edited: 0040922
May 18, 2015 4:49 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0040976
May 18, 2015 4:51 pm	ptarth	Note Edited: 0040976
May 18, 2015 5:42 pm	jerith	Note Added: 0040986
May 18, 2015 6:03 pm	jerith	Note Added: 0040987
May 18, 2015 6:07 pm	jerith	Note Added: 0040988
May 22, 2015 1:42 pm	ptarth	Note Added: 0041055
May 22, 2015 1:42 pm	ptarth	File Added: 824 Fenyn Disease death.save
Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Note Added: 0041802
Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Status	new => resolved
Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Resolution	open => fixed
Jun 5, 2015 1:44 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Assigned To	=> Chris_McElligottPark

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