View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0017098 | Stars Beyond Reach | Gameplay Idea | Jun 4, 2015 8:13 pm | Jun 7, 2015 3:19 pm | |
| Reporter | Cinth | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 0.872 (Colonization and Exploration) | ||||
| Summary | 0017098: Logging Camp + Fishery | ||||
| Description | Make a starter tech [Basic Industry] and stuff Logging Camp / Fishery in it. The 4 icon Biology just doesn't look right visually (and the alignment it messed up) [][][][][Beakers](#) The beakers icon sits right on the edge of the Fishery icon. Not sure if there is room to nudge things to have proper spacing (something that I didn't consider when I suggested moving fishery in the first place). | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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I'd rather make a "boat" research, fit both fisheries and fishing wharf in them. And place that one earlier in the research tree. |
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Wharf needs to stand near forestry really. It's not an early game tech, it's a mid game tech that lets you squeeze more out of your fisheries. And both do well to supplement your main industry buildings. |
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I would have placed both at the same place because else new players would make the mistake of not placing them "right" for the fishing wharf. Then again, there is no limitations for the fisheries. |
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There are good/bad placement ways for a lot of buildings. Do you build around adjacency or not, and it's something that every player would learn as they play. It's also adding choice for experienced players. |
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Ok, I have the complete opposing opinion about your conclusions despite having apparently the same mindset. I think grouping both fish buildings and placing them early in the tech tree would be to give new players a simple adjacency pattern. So they can play around with the concept in a mostly untouched environment (water). Learning good / bad placement for buildings would indeed be a skill that players have learn. But "advanced" placement will be plentiful later on with new building and the like. I don't think there is a need to make "noob" placement "complex" (ok, simple lvl 2 instead of simple lvl1). The point here would be to have the game teach the player, instead of "punishing" him toward no having the forethought of knowing all of the "starter" buildings before starting the game. |
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Considering you can demo any building and fix placement errors as you learn, it isn't punishing a player. It's a learning curve and tbh, it isn't that steep where adjacency bonuses are concerned. |
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Yes, exactly. It's a learning curve. Basically => simple adjacency = farms (1 building). => "simple lvl 2" => fish + wharf (2 buildings, 1 research). - "simple lvl 3" => money buildings. => "middle" log + industry, pop center + eateries (2 building, 2 research), => mid adjacency => and so on I think you get the idea. That said, maybe moving pop center + eateries needs to be done too. What I want to avoid is the player placing early buildings, like fisheries, then finding out the wharf in a later research maybe 50 turns later, and feeling like he wants to restart the game. I don't know how that can be "demoed". Maybe I missed something ? I'm saying that because that's what I did in that case. And I'm saying "punished" because that's how I felt when finding that I badly placed my buildings... but not on SBR, as I've already played games with adjacency bonus before. That some will act and feel as I did is enough for me to implement this. |
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Most buildings can be demolished. You pay a small price to fix things to be a little better (I don't see a problem with that). It shouldn't be something that player has to do more than one or two times within a certain building set (should have learned it by then). As the player gets better, they remember and future games don't see the same mistakes (or shouldn't see them). The only time I've wanted to restart recently was if the Thoraxians were seeded close to me. I don't want them near at the start (very annoying). I think we should want to avoid crowding the early tree to much. Having wharf and mills further up isn't really that bad and even if they were early, you are only going to get at most 1 of each for a long time (until your pop unlocks another). Factories might just be misplaced since it's also one of those that you unlock super early and only get 1 for a long time. |
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Maybe... but as a whole demolishing does not feel like a right mechanic to be forced into for the first buildings - for me it's to be limited to "somewhat" advanced combos. When I say "early", maybe not "first line". Dunno. Well. Don't have anything to add. Let's hope Crhis or Keith finds something awesome from here. |
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The adjacency bonuses and penalties are clearly listed on all the buildings, so I don't think many people are going to mess that up badly. Also, if you're not looking at adjacency at all you're going to have a rough time of it -- that's something for a tutorial to point out in case new players miss it, but I think the information is obvious enough even without that. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jun 4, 2015 8:13 pm | Cinth | New Issue | |
| Jun 5, 2015 1:28 am | kasnavada | Note Added: 0041729 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 3:07 am | Cinth | Note Added: 0041732 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 5:52 am | kasnavada | Note Added: 0041734 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 1:15 pm | Cinth | Note Added: 0041796 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 1:24 pm | kasnavada | Note Added: 0041800 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 1:24 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041800 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 1:54 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041800 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 2:47 pm | Cinth | Note Added: 0041816 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 3:09 pm | kasnavada | Note Added: 0041824 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 3:11 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041824 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 3:12 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041824 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 3:37 pm | Cinth | Note Added: 0041829 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 4:15 pm | kasnavada | Note Added: 0041831 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 4:24 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041831 | |
| Jun 5, 2015 4:24 pm | kasnavada | Note Edited: 0041831 | |
| Jun 7, 2015 3:19 pm | jerith | Note Added: 0041993 |
