View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022061 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Nov 3, 2019 1:54 am | Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | |
| Reporter | CrumbedSchnitz | Assigned To | RocketAssistedPuffin | ||
| Status | closed | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 1.003 Sortable Objectives | ||||
| Summary | 0022061: 10/10/10 gone | ||||
| Description | To preface, I save-scummed a lot to account for new mechanics etc. (I only picked this game up yesterday and have never played the original, jumped from difficulty 4 to this 10 lol). Anyways, the scenario was 10/10/10 AI, full ensemble, anticipatory strike and intelligent predator. There was a dyson sphere (intensity 8), marauders (intensity 8), nanocaust (intensity 5), human resistance fighters (intensity 6) and zenith trader. Parasitic fleet (cause zombie are thematically cool), rejuvenator combat fleet and webbed battlestation. I spawned with a 100 planet realistic galaxy with wave types as direct and reconquest (I believe default, not sure). A few things. The warden fleet is incredibly easy to distract with a very small fleet. If you send a 20ish strength ship off to somewhere in the galaxy and raid a low level planet, they will hike the whole way there allowing your main fleet to say, hack something with a long timer or break a well-defended world. The Zenith trader was instrumental in letting me win the game. I basically bought all of its buildings in a one-way choke into my small system that I had setup, bringing it to something like 80 strength. Despite having roughly 360 threat, this appeared to be enough to deter the AI allowing me to ship my 0000024:0000400 strength fleet to the overlord and snipe it. This may be related to me recently destroying the hunter fleet / warden fleet, but I vaguely thought that threat could operate independently, not sure. Dyson spheres seem to be a disadvantage. I had one on the receiving planet of my 2 planet choke-point. It contributes very little in terms of protection (started at intensity 4) and it's far too expensive hack point wise to increase its strength AND also deal with the very long aggro period, PLUS the AI intermittently builds things which make it attack you, meaning you have to have higher levels of planetary defenses in case their whole fleet turns aggro (got wiped once due to it, not knowing it could happen). The Super Terminal is incredibly easy to cheese, or so it seems anyways. Zombies with a large initial fleet allowed me to use 0000145:0000068 hack points (oh yeah, my hack points actually went to -1 after using it and not stopping it). This was with a fleet roughly 0000217:0000200 strength, dunno how that's meant to chalk up. Also, during that whole fight, the AI *could* have attacked my choke-point world and gone for the throat (it was lightly defended by a low strength fleet), but it didn't seem to recognise how 'binding' the super terminal fight is. Marauders are incredibly useful for clearing out planets without paying the price. Basically, you destroy everything in the planet with your fleet except the AI points stuff, let the marauders come in and clean up, then destroy their outpost. I believe this nets you no points (you have to claim to lose) but still clear out the planet. If you then say, have a battlestation and continue a forward moving frontline, you could theoretically clear large amounts of system with no AI penalty. AIP are too easy to cheese. I did not get to 100 the whole game, hunters never got to waves. Basically, I would snipe every single data center possible, avoid as many raid engines as possible, capture no planets if I could help it, selectively choose fleets to capture based on tech. The Super Terminal netted me 0000259:0000160? points, but I was by the end of the game sitting on roughly 180 AIP points reduction with a 54 floor, bringing me to 95 (I hit 99 once). I didn't even hold a major data centre. Defense tech seems (haven't played much remember) almost a complete waste to me. Either you upgrade your turrets through offense upgrades and spam them through economic upgrades, or focus more on economy and hack the living hell out of GCAs. You don't want to be turtling without growing your offensive capabilities, fleets are so powerful given their speed they are superior defense options. Another thing on zombies. One can farm a temporary defensive situation by getting either the warden fleet to come over, or alerting a planet etc., in a manageable way to cultivate a large zombie strength (I got 0000143:0000050 highest normally, 170 in final overlord battle but that's not really relevant). These zombie barriers are useful for hugely boosting the amount of time you have before needing to defend. I dunno, zombies just seem strong. Also, the amount of go for the throat strikes the AI did forces you to forcefield and station at the relevant warpgates and turtle on them. Logistical stations are almost forced on bordering planets to homeworld just to seize them up. Anyways, that's about all I can think of, not sure if this scenario really counts as a 'true' 10/10/10, although I'm 90% sure I could've done it without that zenith trader given how easily I demolished the overlord, I could've spared 50 strength to defend. This game is fantastic and I'm happy to report this 'bug'. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Edit: Forgot to mention, having a dyson sphere close by also sucks because the AI sends very large attacks at it consistently. Now I'm not sure if those attacks would have happened to me instead, and if so it's not that relevant, but if it is additional attacks (or disproportional for the AIP/threat the player has made), then it is really bad mainly because the attacks ignored the dyson sphere after arriving and went straight for me, so I was dealing with two attacks at a time instead of what I imagine would be one (both 0000126:0000080 strength relatively early game). Also did not use co-processors either, they're only useful if you're REALLY far away from a threshold and will likely not be used in difficulty 10 as you never want to hit 100 (mark increase and hunter waves). |
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Zombify is super good. It basically means you can win by attrition as long as the enemy can't turbo wipe you. It's particularly amazing on tech rerolls and long hacks such as the Super Terminal. Totally agree with Schnitz that it punches way above its weight. How does it work? If a zombify unit does its required zombie damage then any unit that then kills that enemy still makes it flip to zombie? If so, that would seem a bit unfair, as even a low mark zombie unit could have a massive positive impact to the fleet. Schnitz: Did you feel the active threat in the galaxy was correctly pushing you.. or was it being too timid? |
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"How does it work? If a zombify unit does its required zombie damage then any unit that then kills that enemy still makes it flip to zombie? If so, that would seem a bit unfair, as even a low mark zombie unit could have a massive positive impact to the fleet." Yep. As long as it has enough of the zombification (or nanocaustation) death effects on it, it'll flip. With the change I made, Parasites went from zombifying in 2 hits to needing...somewhere around 20 at MK1? Pretty preliminary values, but super easy to change now. Taking a look now into making it so zombification only works on strikecraft. Nanocaustation will remain the same (the Trader goodies only cause normal zombification). |
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Active threat seemed way too timid, but that may be due to my lucky map gen that gave me a one-way choke-point into my small system. With a small fleet camped there plus a military station, nothing wanted to come through. Before I got that set up though (only managed it quite late), it seemed way too timid. With something like 200 threat lying around at some times, it wouldn't co-ordinate with timed waves or hunter fleets (untied to threat at that time I believe). I did try to minimise threat a lot, so perhaps the AI was being smartly conservative, not sure. RocketAssistedPuffin: Do zombies generate threat for you when they attack nearby stars? Also, same question for human resistance fighters that join in a system you're only passing by in. |
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If you have a save where the AI has lots of threat and doesn't seem to be making good use of it I'd be interested in looking at it. I basically need a specific save to test against to improve the AI's behaviour. Zombies don't generate threat. |
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I have one save with my fleet not defending my system, roughly 200-400 threat (depends on how long it runs) and only about 100 strength defending the choke (something which the AI in other situations has definitely seen as worth attacking/bypassing). I activated the nanocaust and it's going strong, so it may be distracting the AI's forces / threat (not sure what mechanics are in place there). I ran the save myself for a while on 10x with my fleet camping in a distant system I had taken. Didn't get attacked on main system despite large threat for a long time, died eventually not dealing with a dyson sphere antagoniser. On a partially related note, how does the AI deal with large enemy fleets in close proximity to the AI Overlord. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I could get the Warden fleet to move far away from the Overlord despite there being a 350 strength fleet (mine) only 3 planets away. Does not having hunter waves unlocked make a big difference? Also unrelated, strength instigator is saying 1400 strength each tick. If strength is directly determined/is the numbers next to each planet, then perhaps the calculations are slightly off. Regardless, what's the process for submitting saves and would you like this one? |
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Long time since report was made. Many changes, if still possible please make a new one. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov 3, 2019 1:54 am | CrumbedSchnitz | New Issue | |
| Nov 3, 2019 1:06 am | CrumbedSchnitz | Note Added: 0054297 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 3:50 am | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054302 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 8:00 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0054306 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 4:43 pm | CrumbedSchnitz | Note Added: 0054320 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 4:47 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054322 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 6:25 pm | CrumbedSchnitz | Note Added: 0054325 | |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Assigned To | => RocketAssistedPuffin |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Status | new => closed |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055449 |
