View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022343 | AI War 2 | Suggestion | Dec 9, 2019 1:34 pm | Dec 11, 2019 5:02 am | |
| Reporter | Peter Ebbesen | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.013 Menacing Messages From The Machine | ||||
| Summary | 0022343: Reworked AIP mark schedule and floor: Too easy to stay and win at mark 1/2 for the experienced, too punishing at higher marks | ||||
| Description | From a discussion with Puffin about AIP. Proposal: Set AIP floor to 50% of accumulated AIP rather than 35%, and alter the AI Mark Level AIP Requirements: ** For Difficulty 7, it was: 100, 220, 340, 470, 580, 700. ** For Difficulty 7, is now: 100, 275, 450, 625, 880, 1,100. ** For Difficulty 8, remove 10 from each level, Difficulty 9 remove 20, and Difficulty 10 remove 30. ** For each Difficulty below 7, add an extra 10 as you go down. *** Still keeps some values low for lower AIP play, while freeing up the middle and higher ones, for people who prefer and can manage that type of gameplay. Reasoning: Currently it is very easy for experienced players to stay at ultra-low AIP levels for a long time due to there being more AIP reduction than in classic and the speed of navigating the galaxy being higher. At the same time, playing at higher AIP levels quickly becomes extremely punishing as once you've used all the AIP reduction the AI marks increase very, very, fast. (And much faster than Classic. Reaching max AI mark in Classic took 1130 + AIP_reduction on difficulty 7, in the sequel it is 700+ AIP_reduction) The result is that the game is too easy for the experienced who choose to stay at low AIP, who can easily win at mark 1 or only hit mark 2 in their push for final victory, and that higher AIP mark play (the tower-defense/defense in depth centered) seldom leads to victory. Mark 2 and 3 play is mostly fine as it is. My proposal should accomplish: a) limiting with major expansion at mark 1 as increasing marks as you expand is the natural order of things (For a difficulty 9 player, currently it requires 80/0.35 = 228 AIP to reach mark 2 because of course he gets the available AIP reduction, with the rework it would only require 80/0.50 = 160 AIP to reach mark 2.) b) not making the game harder for new players, who naturally expand to marks 2 and 3 when playing, don't play optimally, and don't know all the tricks of maximizing AIP reduction c) allowing the player roughly the same opportunities to expand at marks 2 and 3 as they do currently d) allowing the players greater opportunities to expand before marks increase at marks 4+, to allow the (admittedly dangerous) high AIP playstyle with a focus on defenses and super weapons possibly in classic for those players who enjoy that kind of fights as an added bonus: e) I expect it will be easier for most people to mentally keep track of floor increases when they are half of what's gained than when they are 35%, but I may be underestimating the playerbase here | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Time for me to fulfill my role as the voice of the contrarian. I aim to be respectful in my disagreement. ** I don't think the game is too punishing at high marks; I think it's not punishing enough. There's still a lot more people playing med-high AIP play than there were in Classic. ** Proposal reduces the impact of changing the default amount of data centers etc. in the galaxy. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. ** Relatedly, I think a better solution than boosting the floor increase would be to reduce the amount of available AIP reduction. If anything, I think the floor already increases a bit too fast. For example, when the MDC exo change was put in I suggested that instead of that, the Classic route of lowering the AIP reduction you get on higher difficulties; i.e., Co-Processors and both types of data centers at least reduced in effectiveness on diff-8 and above. the smaller data centers were only -15 on 8, -10 on 9, and you could even extend that to -5 on 10. Similar reductions for the other structures. I think this is far more elegant as a built-in scaling of the challenge on higher difficulty tiers. ** Also, you could significantly reduce the default levels of data centers in the galaxy; from 2 major and 6 minor to 1 major and 4 minor etc. Again, I think that kind of solution is more elegant and less heavy-handed than changing the floor number. The higher the floor increase, the less useful AIP reducers are. I think it's a better way to balance things to keep them just as useful, but have less of them available. This retains if not enhances their value. |
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Countering Thotimx points from my own experience, *I think the game isn't punishing enough at high mark, especially with all the options available. to make your life harder. I'd also really like to see how well Diff8, 9 and 10 fare when they're forced to deal with wormholes waves and such. Currently diff 10 games tend to rely on staying below the level where they have to deal with it. *I'd rather have "forced Mark up" when you reach some step, like Lone Fleet triggering a raise to Mark 2 or 3 if it's below that mark level. Similarly steeping on a Mark VI would trigger mark 2 if it's still at mark 1, and world mark VII would trigger Mark 3. So regardless of AIP some Mark Levels would be hit, encouraging getting to those AIP. *Currently (at least up to this update) I find kind of sad that the low-AIP encouragement means you minimize taking the tools offered. It's entirely possible to play AI War for dozens of hours and not taking a single Lone Fleet, though that was usually after a bad experience. *I'd rather pick the route of high difficulty forcing players to deal with more trouble early on but without the threat exploding from there. Another option could be to raise the AIP floor at higher difficulties. So you'd get 40%, 45%, 50% for exemple at 8,9,10 rather than the current 35%. (Which I now realize was also in Puffin proposal). Or high difficulties could also straight up start with more AIP. Might be tricky balance wise but could work. |
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It's mostly a philosophical difference that's up to the devs to decide on for sure, but I think low-AIP encouragement is a feature to be savored, not something to be adjusted away from. Without it, a big part of the game 's fundamental core- the pressure on your decisions for what to capture in the early and mid-game - is removed. That's what AI War has always been and is part and parcel of the distinction between it and other games. The official Background Story states as much: "You must use discretion, avoid distraction and temptation, and wield your forces like scalpel. Take risks, be bold, but don't try to be a conqueror". |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 9, 2019 1:34 pm | Peter Ebbesen | New Issue | |
| Dec 10, 2019 9:33 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0054926 | |
| Dec 11, 2019 4:37 am | ArnaudB | Note Added: 0054930 | |
| Dec 11, 2019 5:02 am | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0054931 |
