View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0022430AI War 2Balance IssueDec 27, 2019 2:24 pm
ReporterArnaudB Assigned To 
Status resolvedResolutionfixed 
Product Version1.025 Hotfix 
Fixed in Version1.025 Hotfix 
Summary0022430: Ghost AI invincible homeworld
DescriptionSo that has been a problem in the last version, most certainly due to the cloaking rebalance.

I have played a four AI game at 9/7/7/7. Having already defeated the 9 and killed guard posts on the other two, I found myself completely stonewalled by the Ghost AI defenses.

First problem is the guard posts that are cloaked. It takes so much time for them to decloak even with 3 support fleet worth of sentry frigates at max sentries tech level plus GCA for frigates that nothing get done.

Second problem likely enable the first. There are thousands of Eyebot Mark VII hanging around the AI homeworld and just staying in ambush at the wormholes. They one-frame kill Mark 6 Officers golem, the Botnet and Armored Mark 7 last slightly longer but not that much. There is nothing I can do against this. Even throwing fleets without fleets leaders doesn't make things progress, as the ambush will wipe out sentry frigates in seconds, then counterattacks show up and slowly things down.

Others homeworlds haven't proved nearly as problematic so this seems to be a Ghost-AI specific issue.
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am

manager  

Hope 8.savemet (94 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 9:47 am

reporter   ~0055139

You only uploaded the meta data file. Need the other thing (meta isn't required for anything).

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 9:57 am

manager   ~0055140

Oops. Site also keeps refusing the save due to file size (2,6mb). Here is an .rar version.
Hope 8.rar (876,708 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 10:10 am

reporter   ~0055141

Last edited: Dec 25, 2019 10:21 am

Hm, so far it doesn't seem that bad. I've been able to clear out all the Sentry Frigates near the Wormhole, get that Post plus cut down on some Guards with just Auto Bombs and the Fusion Bombers.

Will update over time.

Addition 1: Able to get Golems in and surviving. Currently not doing too bad though the starving metal the save has is painful, no reinforcements (though I haven't brought in any of your other stuff). Sentry Frigates are now untouched, spread out across the planet so anything is revealed in time.

Addition 2: Hive Golem is the key to you winning this I think. Drones (and zombies from Nanoswarms) don't contribute to counter-attacks, so having the Hive Golem and Nanoswarms working full speed makes this much easier. I ended up doing most of a Homeworld last night before getting a counter attack warning using Outguard.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 10:42 am

reporter   ~0055142

Last edited: Dec 25, 2019 10:44 am

Tada. Had a small counter attack earlier, 50S, but that's it cleared with the second one only 70S (and it doesn't fire).

So in short, spam Auto Bombs through the wormhole. The Eyebots and Raptors decloak in 2 and 1 shots respectively. Takes 10 seconds for it to come back, so you can bomb them to bits in time. Once that's clear, find the nearby Sabot Post and Fusion Bomb it. Once that's done, you can bring stuff in, spread the Sentry Frigates around.

After that it's kind of just having the Rejuvenator and Backdoor Factories + Hive Golem swarm with drones. Keep just about everything else back, microing Muggers, pulling back ones who lose shields. Eventually you just overrun with drones causing no counter attack. Decoys protect the Yellow Jackets, who get metal back for you to build more Auto Bombs/Nanoswarms.

Try it for yourself? See if it works for you. An interesting scenario.

GhostHomeworld.jpg (413,173 bytes)

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 1:05 pm

manager   ~0055143

Well, I tried over and over but nope.

Just going to give up. It's utter bullshit.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 1:07 pm

reporter   ~0055144

Is er, the save you gave me the right one? You noted thousands of Eyebots but the save has slightly under 600.

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 1:27 pm

manager   ~0055145

I have had multiple going between six hundreds to 2800 eyebots and multipel thousands of some Pike units.

I spent multiple hours at that stupid thing, I am not doing it anymore.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 1:32 pm

reporter   ~0055146

I honestly have no idea what is going on for you. I tried sending everything in on Pursuit then doing nothing and won just fine...that's really weird.

DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY

Dec 25, 2019 1:39 pm

reporter   ~0055147

Out of curiosity i tried this save you provided, and are you sure you're loosing? I literally just threw in the mk5 combat sentry frigates with the main force, killed the 700 eyebots easily with the armored golem and just watched as the ships FRD to victory. Even with starving metal, all the ships took over after a bit of time. The hive golem alone probably could have carried me to victory in that particular battle, if i wasn't crippling it every 30 seconds. Decloaking the guard posts took literally 7 seconds. if you're playing on 10x speed, then it should take even less time to decloak. 2 minute autosaves of my progress is provided. I seriously have no idea how you COULDN'T win this. You have 3 mk6 golems. If you have issues with the eye bots, send in strikecraft first then.

DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY

Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm

reporter  

Autosave.106729.rar (865,500 bytes)
Autosave.106849.rar (881,462 bytes)
Autosave.106969.rar (876,310 bytes)
Autosave.107089.rar (856,737 bytes)
Autosave.107209.rar (869,170 bytes)

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm

manager   ~0055148

This is what I get by throwing my forces at the Homeworld.

Note the time. The initial defenses aren't enough but quickly hundreds strength worth of units show up and wipe out my entire force.
20191225193952_1.jpg (495,693 bytes)

DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY

Dec 25, 2019 1:48 pm

reporter   ~0055149

did you let the ai get a CA off? Also did you mod your game?

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 1:51 pm

manager   ~0055150

I checked if mods were an issue and no. It doesn't change anything. I have Civilan Industry but it isn't active.

I also don't get how Rocket has over 500 strength in his screenshot. I don't have half that strength before throwing stuff at the homeworld.

DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY

Dec 25, 2019 1:55 pm

reporter   ~0055151

the golems + mk7 frigates alone could be like 300 ish strength, so it's feasable to get 500 strength. try playing on normal speed. game tends to act funky when you set the speed to 10x.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 1:56 pm

reporter   ~0055152

This image is what you have in the save though.

Try playing it at normal speed instead of 10x.
PreAttack.jpg (439,380 bytes)

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 2:04 pm

manager   ~0055154

Yeah that... isn't what I have.

If I wait till timer align to your screenshot, from loading the save I provided (Hope 8) I get <300 Strength.

I'm going to wipe out XML mods and try a file check, but that can't be normal.
20191225195938_1.jpg (513,802 bytes)

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 2:13 pm

manager   ~0055155

Progress.

Clearing the XML mods and file check restored the strength. At the minimum it GREATLY increased the golems and lone fleet health. Oddly enough in what I had, their health and shield didn't increase. Not sure where the rest of the strength comes from.

Sentry frigates also work better. I had a lot less latency than usual (I had hundreds of AI units managing to travel my military planet by that homeworld, despite max leveled tachyton near a wormhole and a lot of sentry frigates.)

I did manage to kill the guard posts without getting a counterattack this time, so it's looking better there.
20191225200533_1.jpg (564,576 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm

reporter   ~0055156

Last edited: Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm

What were the mods? I know you have a super unit one but I recall those values are notably higher than default which means it should be easier for you.

Also curious - can you attach the Debug log here please? I'm curious if there were silent errors.

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 2:26 pm

manager   ~0055157

I depreciated the super unit in waiting for rebalance. I believe the only change ended up being no AIP on claim, but otherwise they had the same stats. The mod also wasn't in the loading order so it shouldn't have been loaded. (WorthwhileLoneFleet thingy).

Here is the log.

Weirdly the AIs are also more active. Yellow sniper AI has thrown me hundreds strength of units in several places after being pretty passive for a while. Fortress baron decided to do the same. Definitively not normal behavior because they haven't been so uppity in over twenty hours of this thirty hours game.

I am enjoying the golem that is bizzardly enough, able to withstand some punishment again. (I think it also didn't get mark upgrade for health and shield).
ArcenDebugLog.txt (1,026,505 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 2:39 pm

reporter   ~0055158

Last edited: Dec 25, 2019 2:40 pm

12/25/2019 7:37:32 PM Errors in reading GameEntityTypeDataTable
internal name 'RorqualHegira' occured more than once
internal name 'Thanatos' occured more than once
internal name 'Gyrn' occured more than once
internal name 'Orchid' occured more than once
internal name 'ArkOne' occured more than once

12/25/2019 7:37:30 PM Errors in reading AIWar2GalaxySettingTable
internal name 'AICivilWar' occured more than once
internal name 'AllyAI' occured more than once
internal name 'ConcentratedFRD' occured more than once
internal name 'MethodicalFRD' occured more than once
internal name 'DefensiveZombies' occured more than once
internal name 'AlliedFactionsGenerateAIP' occured more than once
internal name 'ScoutAdjacentOnly' occured more than once
internal name 'MaxPlanetsToScoutAtOnce' occured more than once
internal name 'WaveWarning' occured more than once
internal name 'ThreatWave' occured more than once
internal name 'CrossPlanetWave' occured more than once
internal name 'DirectWave' occured more than once
internal name 'ReconquestWave' occured more than once
internal name 'SharkA' occured more than once
internal name 'SharkB' occured more than once
internal name 'GuardAggroDistance' occured more than once
internal name 'RegularFleetsToSeed' occured more than once
(more but not needed)

So huhm, some silent errors indeed. Unsure what happened exactly...the second part is still happening, though.

I noticed a lot of aggression from the AI too. When fighting that Homeworld several planets got wiped but I wasn't paying much attention to that, just to the main subject of the report. How odd.

Even weirder is the fact the Sentry Frigates are working now.

You didn't get error popups saying any of that? I've had the former.

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 2:49 pm

reporter   ~0055159

12/25/2019 5:57:50 PM Errors in reading TechUpgradeTable
internal name 'Unused' occured more than once
internal name 'UpgradeMeFromFleetOnly' occured more than once
internal name 'Light' occured more than once
internal name 'Medium' occured more than once
internal name 'Heavy' occured more than once
internal name 'Engineering' occured more than once
internal name 'MetalGeneration' occured more than once
internal name 'CommandEconomic' occured more than once
internal name 'CommandMilitary' occured more than once
internal name 'CommandLogistical' occured more than once
internal name 'Forcefields' occured more than once
internal name 'Citadels' occured more than once
internal name 'Minefields' occured more than once
internal name 'Sentries' occured more than once
internal name 'TractorBeams' occured more than once
internal name 'SpireCore' occured more than once
internal name 'ArkSpirit' occured more than once
internal name 'ArkHeart' occured more than once
internal name 'ArkArmor' occured more than once
internal name 'ArkFist' occured more than once
internal name 'BattlestationShelter' occured more than once
internal name 'BattlestationHand' occured more than once
internal name 'BattlestationArchitect' occured more than once
internal name 'CitadelExecutioner' occured more than once
internal name 'CitadelProtector' occured more than once
internal name 'CitadelConsumer' occured more than once
internal name 'EnergyCollector' occured more than once

You modded some Techs? This seems to have been an XML loading issue or something...beyond my knowledge as to the inner workings. Guess it despite not being loaded majorly interfered.

Is it all working fine now more or less?

ArnaudB

Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm

manager   ~0055160

It's working a lot better yes.

Modding tech was when we didn't have turret tech and I added mine. The only thing it really did now was put hulls cost at 8000 rather than 10k.

On another note, apparently the special fleets of the AI all migrate to the remaining living AIs, even during civil war...

You know what? I think I am just going to go to sleep and forget this game.

1,54K strength. What am I even suppose to do about that...
20191225205954_1.jpg (594,961 bytes)

RocketAssistedPuffin

Dec 25, 2019 3:29 pm

reporter   ~0055161

That's...terribly unfortunate. That'll have to wait until Badger returns, though I'll see what I can find.

I'll close this one and make a new report with that detail, as it's a different thing.

Chris_McElligottPark

Dec 27, 2019 2:21 pm

administrator   ~0055180

One note, just coming into this: the way that mods are checked to see if they are active or not is different from what it used to be. It used to be that there was one central file that listed all the mods that you would have active (XMLLoadingOrder.txt). That can still be used to control the loading order of mods, but it no longer turns them on or off.

To turn a mod on, just create it in its folder. To turn it off, add a blank ModIsDisabled.txt file inside the root folder of the mod. To re-enable, just rename or remove that file. If the file has something in it, it doesn't matter, but it's a waste; the game just checks for the presence of that.

To see what mods are active on a given run of the game, if you look in the log you would see an entry like this:

12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Expansions:
The Spire Rises (NOT INSTALLED)

12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Check For Extra Modules (0.0080s)
12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Warning: skipped mod "_Vanilla" in XMLLoadingOrder.txt because we couldn't find any mod with that name
12/25/2019 7:58:08 PM Installed Mods:
SKCivilianIndustry (1)
DefaultLobby (10000)

So basically it knows about the first expansion, but that's not installed -- fine. The XMLLoadingOrder.txt refers to _Vanilla, which is an old thing and harmless.

But then it's noting that you had two other mods that were actively enabled because of not having a ModIsDisabled.txt file inside them. If no mods are installed or all are disabled, then you wouldn't see an "Installed Mods:" line at all.

Chris_McElligottPark

Dec 27, 2019 2:24 pm

administrator   ~0055181

Also fixed this:

* Fixed a nullref exception that could happen in StartReconquestDefenseSeeding for AIs types that do not use non-dire guardians for some reason.

Thanks!

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am ArnaudB New Issue
Dec 25, 2019 9:22 am ArnaudB File Added: Hope 8.savemet
Dec 25, 2019 9:47 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055139
Dec 25, 2019 9:57 am ArnaudB File Added: Hope 8.rar
Dec 25, 2019 9:57 am ArnaudB Note Added: 0055140
Dec 25, 2019 10:10 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055141
Dec 25, 2019 10:17 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0055141
Dec 25, 2019 10:21 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0055141
Dec 25, 2019 10:42 am RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: GhostHomeworld.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 10:42 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055142
Dec 25, 2019 10:44 am RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0055142
Dec 25, 2019 1:05 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055143
Dec 25, 2019 1:07 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055144
Dec 25, 2019 1:27 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055145
Dec 25, 2019 1:32 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055146
Dec 25, 2019 1:39 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY Note Added: 0055147
Dec 25, 2019 1:43 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.106729.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:44 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Deleted: Autosave.106729.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.106729.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.106849.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.106969.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.107089.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: Autosave.107209.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:45 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY File Added: that wasnt so hard jpg.rar
Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm ArnaudB File Added: 20191225193952_1.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 1:46 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055148
Dec 25, 2019 1:48 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY Note Added: 0055149
Dec 25, 2019 1:51 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055150
Dec 25, 2019 1:55 pm DEMOCRACY_DEMOCRACY Note Added: 0055151
Dec 25, 2019 1:56 pm RocketAssistedPuffin File Added: PreAttack.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 1:56 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055152
Dec 25, 2019 2:04 pm ArnaudB File Added: 20191225195938_1.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 2:04 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055154
Dec 25, 2019 2:13 pm ArnaudB File Added: 20191225200533_1.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 2:13 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055155
Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055156
Dec 25, 2019 2:19 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0055156
Dec 25, 2019 2:26 pm ArnaudB File Added: ArcenDebugLog.txt
Dec 25, 2019 2:26 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055157
Dec 25, 2019 2:39 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055158
Dec 25, 2019 2:40 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Edited: 0055158
Dec 25, 2019 2:49 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055159
Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm ArnaudB File Added: 20191225205954_1.jpg
Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm ArnaudB Note Added: 0055160
Dec 25, 2019 3:29 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Note Added: 0055161
Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Status new => resolved
Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Resolution open => fixed
Dec 25, 2019 3:30 pm RocketAssistedPuffin Fixed in Version => 1.025 Hotfix
Dec 27, 2019 2:21 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0055180
Dec 27, 2019 2:24 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0055181