View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0023035 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Mar 15, 2020 4:43 am | Mar 19, 2020 8:50 pm | |
| Reporter | Strategic Sage | Assigned To | RocketAssistedPuffin | ||
| Status | requires feedback | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 2.009 Plenty Of Tuning | ||||
| Summary | 0023035: Spire Structure Balance | ||||
| Description | I haven't seen what's past Mark V, for the record. Based on the buildings available up to that level though, here's some issues that strike me as areas to be potentially improved. ** Why would I ever want to build a Buttress (2M energy, 4 sockets, 1.3M combined health) when the Great Shield(2M energy, 1 socket, 16M shield) is available much sooner and is obscenely superior with it's ability to allow maximum damage from anything underneath it? I can see a situation where you'd want the Buttress if it was available at MK I or II and the Great-Shield not until at least MK IV at the bare minimum, possibly even V. But as is I can't see it. Also, I'd definitely make the Buttress 1 socket and the Great-Shield at least 2, maybe 3. ** The Spy Cradles just aren't worth it either. This is related to the excess of hacking points I suggested changing elsewhere, but with the wealth of those available and the fact that you can just watch planets nearby with them, I can't envisage a scenario in which I'd ever want to spend 2M energy to support these. I like most of the other buildings - fortresses, neural net, engineering center, plasma driver - and think their costs etc. are roughly appropriate. Any tweaking there would be more minor. I also have some potential ideas for additional structures but I'll withhold those until I see what is actually in the game at MK VI & VII. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Completely agree about the buttress. In raw HP terms it's not much better than a single extra force field, and the utility against force field pierce unit, and those tend to target your home command anyway, for which the buttress doesn't work. It probably has slightly higher utility in scourge games, since they have a lot of access to pierce, but even there I have trouble seeing it being worth it's current massive slot cost. My perspective is that of a player who goes through to many high mk cities rather quickly and hasn't yet played through on a difficulty that really challenges me, but I think the great shield is actually fine as it is. It eats a lot of energy and 16 million health will go very quickly against any real attack, though I do wonder if it would be better if it Mk scaled to be slightly weaker at the lower levels. I haven't used the spy cradles yet, so I have no view. |
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(While we're discussing spire structure balance, am I correct in thinking Eyebots do 800x their normal damage to the 2 million energy spire structures?) |
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I heard that those were capped at some point Lord of Nothing, but don't have a good way to test that. |
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* Both Spy Cradles vision range increased by 1, both have very powerful planet wide tachyon systems. * Buttress has same durability as normal structures rather than less, requires MK4 city rather than 5, uses 2 sockets rather than 4, has the same effects as a Black Hole Machine, but the gravity part is planet wide. ** Made the lower tier Extra-Galactic War units susceptible to this. Buttress seems decent. Spy Cradle unsure. |
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Like the Buttress changes - should at least put it in the conversation, particularly since Military Commands can't build grav generators. Nice way to fill that hole. On the Spy Cradle, I don't think extending the vision out more really adds value. I know that's the main thing they were designed to do, but … it's just not useful in a Spire game IMO. The tachyon coverage is nice though. I would counterpropose that possibly reducing the energy supply to from 2M to 1M each seems better than extending the range. |
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Looking forward to trying both of these. The spy cradle does a lot against poltergeists now, which should be very powerful on more open maps where they are harder to handle, which also fits with where the cradle is more powerful. The buttress should be much more usable now as well, that seems like good synergy with the fortresses, and combines well with the cradle against the aforementioned poltergeist to the point that it might even be usable on the home planet in some games. Having said that, I also agree with Sage's point that the abundance of hacking you have in a spire game just fundamentally means the vision part of a cradle is inherently low value. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 15, 2020 4:43 am | Strategic Sage | New Issue | |
| Mar 15, 2020 6:13 am | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0056554 | |
| Mar 15, 2020 8:54 am | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0056556 | |
| Mar 16, 2020 10:48 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0056576 | |
| Mar 19, 2020 7:16 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Assigned To | => RocketAssistedPuffin |
| Mar 19, 2020 7:16 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Status | new => requires feedback |
| Mar 19, 2020 7:16 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0056587 | |
| Mar 19, 2020 7:55 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0056588 | |
| Mar 19, 2020 8:50 pm | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0056590 |
