View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002946 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Feb 24, 2011 6:20 pm | Mar 23, 2011 4:51 pm | |
| Reporter | Irxallis | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 5.002 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 5.007 | ||||
| Summary | 0002946: Make ships generated by knowledge raid of zombie type. | ||||
| Description | Ships which are generated at the Command Station while performing Knowledge Raid are normal, non-zombie ships. This is not consistent with AI Aye generated ships and SuperTerminal generated ships, being as abusable as the former before those being changed. This makes it possible to use a Botnet Golem to easily perform a knowledge raid, making it a cheap way to generate knowledge without any risks. Link to a forum thread about the issue: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,8343.0.html Attached an image presenting the use of Botnet Golem alongside the fleet. At that point the army is just a cover for a Golem and the full attack is absorbed by the zombies. If we wanted to, we could continue indefinitely, generating LOTS of zombies, especially planting one MRS on the planet under force fields and hidden by a cloaker. Note: on the attached picture dark blue player did not bring any unit to the planet except the golem. Please look at the unit count versus enemy units. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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or u could convert spawning to core ships with appropriate spawning conversion. thus solve problem of bot-net, and they wont be mindless zombies roaming round stupidly lols XD |
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I'm against making them zombies. Pro making them mk5 though. If you want the knowledge that bad? You'll just have to fight for it. |
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Consider the value of a knowledge raid though. If it's too hard it may just be easier to smash an AI system and get knowledge the regular way, absorbing the AIP penalty. |
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Yeah making them MkV is a bad idea. There's no reason to drastically increase the difficulty of knowledge raiding just to patch an exploit. Just make them zombies, what's the difference? |
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1) Making them zombies: - is consistent with every other generation - solves the problem of abusing enemy spawn without introduction of a new type of mechanics. 2) Making them MkV with reduced spawn - makes it abusable if you have Paralyzers, Maws, Nanoswarm (maybe Martyrs?) or other 'denial' unit for too low spawn - makes it impossible to execute knowledge raid for too high spawn, especially without denial units 3) Making them MkV with no spawn reduction - makes it impossible to execute knowledge raids at all Personally I prefer making them zombies, as it just 'works' (SuperTerminal / Eye). MkV, although inconsistent with the others, would resolve the problem too with smaller spawn (though it opens another can of worms). If there is no reduction of a spawn though... I prefer it to be unchanged, as Botnet Golem does not exist in every game and thus this exploit is not THAT bad in usual cases (and knowledge raid is useful, even if very expensive). |
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I'm pro-zombie. (How often do you hear that, huh?) |
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Yeah, Zombies if anything is done to them. It's very hard to raid knowledge in the early to mid game, but once you hit a critical mass of ships and learn a few tricks(putting down tractor beams, decloaker, and grav turrets) it's not hard at all. I always clear out the system fully, even wormhole guard posts, before raiding knowledge, it makes it a ton easier! Only down side is that does take more time to do all that. |
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I dont see how mk5's would make this so hard, havent yet heard anyone complain about FS-waves etc .. Zombies would works, but as everything 'zombie spams' I'd rather see this implemented a bit different than just default to 'zombie spam'. Also any argument about mk5s making it difficult, should it not be like that? Afaik knowledge raiding should in effect cost you your fleet ... should. As it is now it is just a fight for a few minutes while you get an other cost-free 3k knowledge, with or without botnet golems. |
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FS waves are very limited and a punishment for going for a victory condition. Paying your whole fleet for a knowledge raid seems too expensive to me, smashing some easy system for 20 AIP isn't THAT expensive so raids only make a difference if you do them repeatedly. If raids give too much knowledge too easily then reduce the knowledge they can gain per system. |
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I don't know if knowledge raiding is really too easy or too hard right now, but it is quite time and/or fleet strength consuming. You have to pretty well clean an entire planet, or dedicate a large portion of your firepower to accomplish it. And those MkIII labs have a base build time of 15 minutes, so you need to dedicate a lot of engineers or wait quite a while for it to get built before you even start seeing payback from your efforts. I think the costs are pretty balanced right now. And comparing them to FS waves doesn't make sense; you're given some hefty firepower to deal with those waves. If knowledge raiding auto-magically spawned me a few spire frigates to deal with the spawns, then sure, go ahead and make them MkV. :P |
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forget zombies if they act same in AI hands, then that alright though they have problem of HURRGRRRG!!! BRAINS!!!!!! that spheres, zombies, ally ship are experiencing. |
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Excellent idea! * AI ships that are spawned in response to saboteurs, such as the human mark III science lab, are now zombie bots. |
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Perhaps it may sound strange coming from me, but ... cool :) I expressed my ideas and it formed a minority, zombies are a very close second :) |
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:) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 24, 2011 6:20 pm | Irxallis | New Issue | |
| Feb 24, 2011 6:20 pm | Irxallis | File Added: Screenshot_2011_02_24_23_02_17.png | |
| Feb 24, 2011 6:30 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0010742 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 1:07 pm | Red Spot | Note Added: 0010749 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 2:44 pm | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0010750 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 3:48 pm | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0010751 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 3:59 pm | Irxallis | Note Added: 0010752 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 5:03 pm | Draco18s | Note Added: 0010757 | |
| Feb 25, 2011 8:46 pm | Draco Cretel | Note Added: 0010769 | |
| Feb 26, 2011 7:05 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0010773 | |
| Feb 26, 2011 9:32 am | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0010780 | |
| Feb 26, 2011 9:33 am | KDR_11k | Note Edited: 0010780 | |
| Feb 26, 2011 2:00 pm | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0010782 | |
| Feb 26, 2011 5:22 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0010786 | |
| Mar 23, 2011 9:56 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0011326 | |
| Mar 23, 2011 9:56 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => resolved |
| Mar 23, 2011 9:56 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 5.007 |
| Mar 23, 2011 9:56 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Mar 23, 2011 9:56 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Mar 23, 2011 2:21 pm | Red Spot | Note Added: 0011343 | |
| Mar 23, 2011 4:51 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0011350 |
