View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0003773 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - New Features | Aug 25, 2011 1:47 pm | Sep 3, 2014 9:55 am | |
| Reporter | BobTheJanitor | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 5.014 | ||||
| Summary | 0003773: Optional Permadeath Mode | ||||
| Description | Relevant thread here: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,8671.0.html The suggestion is to add an optional switch in the game setup that would turn on roguelike-style permadeath. You would only be able to manually save the game when quitting, and if your home command station is destroyed that save is automatically deleted (or at least overwritten with a lost game save). Probably smart to keep autosaving in case of crashes, but always overwrite the autosave with the actual save when the player exits. A few achievements for winning/losing/whatever in permadeath mode would be appreciated as well. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
| has duplicate | 0015505 | new | Ironman |
|
|
I dislike the idea of perma death. Its a rts and who cares if you decide to load a save up from before you lost to try again. Even if its a option, you can just delet your old save after you lost. |
|
|
True, it is something you can do yourself. While there are plenty of features to reduce micromanagement, this does not count as such. It is not difficult to delete your save after losing. |
|
|
Having an option to do this and just deleting the save after losing are completely different things. Namely, having the game itself do this to you if you lose has a completely different effect upon the player than if the player deletes the savefile after losing. Furthermore, why would this not being a feature to reduce micromanagement matter at all? All features added don't necessarily need to be of that sort. It's also completely optional. If you don't want to play with permadeath on, don't play with permadeath on. |
|
|
Yes, but how hard is it to just delete the save file after losing? it is just not necessary, or even add much convenience, at least compared to things like the automated energy hamster.,, |
|
|
Whether or not it is difficult to delete the save file yourself is irrelevant. Just because it isn't necessary doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice to have. |
|
|
I suppose we ought to just wait for a Dev to come in here to help clarify what classifies a reasonable anti-micromanagement feature. |
|
|
Anyone opposed to permadeath, I'm curious if you've ever played a roguelike game before. If not, might I suggest trying it out before you pass judgment? There's a difference between knowing that if you mess up, it's game over forever, and just saying to yourself 'I'm going to delete my save if I die!' It's intangible, but it's very much there. Some people find it adds a very interesting dynamic to a game, a sort of thrill that they can't get anywhere else. And again, having the option wouldn't affect your own method of playing the game. If you hate it, don't use it! Just like all the other options when you start a game. |
|
|
Oh god, I dumped untold hours into Crawl... and still never beat it :( Big +1 for permadeath option though. That's how I've been playing anyway, and it'd be fun to get recognition ;) |
|
|
@BobTheJanitor Yes i did, and well it caused alot rage when you get Ninja assassinated |
|
|
Wtf this is a great idea, let's do it! |
|
|
I like this idea. If achievements are added, there should be different ones for different difficulty levels, like 2 7's, 2 8's, etc. |
|
|
I don't like this idea, as I don't think it add anything to the game that you can't do manually, and can cause problems should someone decided to turn it on for their last game for whatever reason, forget about it for their next game and discover several hours in that they can't save like they are used to. |
|
|
I would like the option for when I feel like being less caring for humanity, they're only numbers on a white-board after all. :P |
|
|
I like this idea. With the possibility of save scumming, people can get careless sometimes. Having a permadeath option would make me more cautious when I'm playing the game, plus I believe it does add some kind of thrill. Putting the games where I try out new stuff aside, I'd turn this option on for all my regular games. |
|
|
@Eternaly_Lost If forgetting you had it turned on was an issue, there could always be an extra warning pop-up added. "You are about to start a game with permadeath enabled. This will disable all manual saving and only save the game when you exit. Are you sure you want to do this? Yea/Nay" I can't explain any more clearly why I think it adds something to the game that you can't get by doing it manually, so if that part doesn't make sense to you I'll just have to let it go unargued. |
|
|
@Eternaly_Lost "I don't like this idea, as I don't think it add anything to the game that you can't do manually..." If you want to get into semantics, why add anything into the game that the user can do manually? Why should we have an option to automate Fabricators if we can do that ourselves? Why should we have an option to FRD if we can simply micromanage the units ourselves? Why should we have an option to "loop build", when we can just requeue the build orders ourselves? The fact of the matter is, there are tons of features in any game whose function can be done manually by the user, but they are added to make it more convenient and enjoyable. How is this any different? |
|
|
I'd further add, an achievement for this is special, and can't be done manually. I'd love to have a badge on my achievements in the future saying I beat a really hard scenario with permadeath mode enabled. It'd be a very rare achievement that I'd actually be pretty proud of. That's much better than the honor system of "trust me, when I got that achievement, I was playing it manual permadeath mode!" Issues like "what if I accidentally left it enabled" should be considered a concern about HOW the feature is implemented, not WHETHER to implement it or not. We can find a way to implement the UI so it doesn't confuse users, perhaps with an extra warning dialog on game start (I believe Diablo 2 did this). |
|
|
The thing is, what's the point? This affects things outside the game, it does not affect gameplay. If you want to play permadeath, use the same file and don't load it again when you die. This doesn't actually affect gameplay in any way so it can't be equaled to an option that does affect gameplay such as FRD or fabricator management options. Really, I come down against this option because it does not improve my time in game in any way and I could not care less about having more achievements. |
|
|
Consider it something similar to Blizzard's Diablo 2, which had a permadeath ("hardcore") option when creating a character. You could argue hardcore mode was useless to add, because you could manually mimic hardcore by just never again playing a character after they had died once. However, what actually happened was an entire subculture of players developed within the game, all of whom revolved around playing hardcore mode. Just about every Diablo 2 forum has a "hardcore" subforum. AI War could be the same. Strategies are very different. The subculture and community never would have become this mature if it were up to players to use the honor system and manually enforce the rules of hardcore. |
|
|
I'll give one more shot to helping those who don't understand the point: Think of it as the difference between playing a game of poker for M&Ms and playing a game of poker with real money on the table. The way the game is played does not change at all. But everything you think and feel about the game changes completely. It's an entirely new dynamic. Choices have real consequences. Or a different way: Put a ladder on the ground and walk across it without touching the ground. Easy, right? Now put that ladder across an alleyway, 20 stories up between two buildings and walk across it. Nothing has changed one bit about the process of balancing and getting from one end to the other. But I guarantee you will feel very differently about it. Now in these scenarios if you do it the safe easy way and 'pretend' that you're doing it the hard way, do you think that's the same thing? On the safe ground, you have the option of getting back up when you slip off the ladder. With 'pretend' permadeath, you have the option of reverting to a save when you fail. You can act like it's not there, but it's never going to be the same. |
|
|
This sounds reasonable to me, preferably with a pop-up warning before you start the game. That is to say, I would *never* consider playing with it but I don't mind someone being able to prove that they did something pretty hardcore. |
|
|
It cannot hurt in any way to add this (and it is quite an easy feature to program). I support it wholeheartedly. |
|
|
I guess it would be nice to not have to spend a few seconds/clicks to manually delete the saves. But then again, I usually just save the next game over the previous one. While I would probably use it (because I play the game like that anyway) I don't really see the need for it. |
|
|
Not everyone is capable of resisting the temptation to reload the game when something bad happens, even if they don't want to. (I'm such a person. I love iron man modes because I can't trust myself.) Enforcing the restriction makes players deal with problems rather than avoid them, if that's what they want. I would vote for an iron man (permadeath) mode, even if I may not use it in this game. |
|
|
I play permadeath exclusively, but I want to keep the save so I have the ability to go back and maybe try to see what I did wrong and if I had a way to avoid it. That kind of post-mortem strategic learning is vital in a game as complex as AI War. In a board game like chess or Scrabble, if you lose the game you don't have to immediately clear/reset the board. You can look at it and see what you might have done differently and even rewind a bit and play out a different scenario. It doesn't change the fact that you lost the game though. I'm supporting based on the idea that if there were a set of permadeath achievements and when you died it permanently marked the save game, as to me that has value. But if it's just a glorified save game deleter then there's no point IMO. |
|
|
Because there would be no way to cheese permadeath achievements.. lol I don't really see anything against it except the hardcore people saying ironman4lyfe |
|
|
Permadeath save deleting options are easily defeated by finding the file and backing it up. Hence why games like crawl don't allow for client side games to be played in their tournaments. It doesn't stop you from making multiple saves, just makes it more inconvenient. Saying you need this option to prevent yourself from "cheating" with this option is just lying to yourself. Just learn some self control. If you don't, this option won't give it to you either. -1 for waste of development's time. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 25, 2011 1:47 pm | BobTheJanitor | New Issue | |
| Aug 25, 2011 8:05 pm | ludsoe | Note Added: 0013012 | |
| Aug 25, 2011 8:39 pm | Ranakastrasz | Note Added: 0013013 | |
| Aug 26, 2011 7:07 pm | Orelius | Note Added: 0013022 | |
| Aug 26, 2011 8:44 pm | Ranakastrasz | Note Added: 0013023 | |
| Aug 26, 2011 10:22 pm | Orelius | Note Added: 0013024 | |
| Aug 26, 2011 10:24 pm | Ranakastrasz | Note Added: 0013025 | |
| Aug 29, 2011 4:17 pm | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0013044 | |
| Aug 29, 2011 6:55 pm | mindloss | Note Added: 0013045 | |
| Sep 1, 2011 8:05 pm | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0013083 | |
| Feb 2, 2012 8:56 pm | Wingflier | Note Added: 0018527 | |
| Feb 3, 2012 3:40 am | corfe83 | Note Added: 0018531 | |
| Feb 3, 2012 8:18 am | Eternaly_Lost | Note Added: 0018536 | |
| Feb 3, 2012 6:53 pm | zharmad | Note Added: 0018584 | |
| Feb 7, 2012 6:38 pm | zoutzakje | Note Added: 0018696 | |
| Feb 7, 2012 8:40 pm | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0018705 | |
| Feb 8, 2012 3:32 pm | Wingflier | Note Added: 0018719 | |
| Feb 8, 2012 4:20 pm | corfe83 | Note Added: 0018720 | |
| Feb 8, 2012 11:06 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0018724 | |
| Feb 8, 2012 11:49 pm | corfe83 | Note Added: 0018729 | |
| Feb 17, 2012 12:04 am | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0019278 | |
| Feb 17, 2012 8:03 pm | martyn_van_buren | Note Added: 0019321 | |
| Mar 7, 2012 6:38 pm | Volatar | Note Added: 0020549 | |
| Jun 22, 2012 7:34 am | snelg | Note Added: 0026024 | |
| Aug 6, 2014 7:58 pm | AdamMil | Note Added: 0038866 | |
| Aug 27, 2014 11:19 pm | AdamMil | Relationship added | has duplicate 0015505 |
| Aug 29, 2014 10:38 pm | spot888 | Note Added: 0039148 | |
| Sep 3, 2014 12:23 am | Arkillion | Note Added: 0039179 | |
| Sep 3, 2014 9:55 am | Chthonic One | Note Added: 0039180 |
