View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0004623Valley 1Balance IssueJan 27, 2012 10:09 am
Reporterlisa107b Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status closedResolutionopen 
Product Version0.518 
Summary0004623: More player guidance needed in game
DescriptionI recently started playing and I've been surprised by the potential greatness of the game!

However, I think there should definitely be more guidance on levelling up your skills/spells because from beta 0.512 I was running about randomly and ended up at civ level 6 with level 1 spells/equipment and although I knew I needed profession books (learned from Youtube vids)I hadn't found any at all in the level 1 chunks/buildings I had explored.

I completed all the buildings in three chunks and I had explored each building to 100% (even the burnt out rooms!)

Actually, with the new balance changes that scared me, I've deleted the world and started again.

Thanks,

Lisa
TagsNo tags attached.
Internal WeightMajor Problem

Activities

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 8:57 am

administrator   ~0015858

Did you read the adviser guardian stone stuff? But in general: yes, this is early beta, so it's a lot more self-serve than it ultimately will be.

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 9:05 am

reporter   ~0015860

yes :) every post, and still couldn't find any profession books!

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 9:07 am

administrator   ~0015862

Check out the small abandoned town region type in particular -- look for houses with studies or in particular libraries on the map. You'll find them reliably in there. :)

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 9:14 am

reporter   ~0015864

Last edited: Oct 6, 2011 9:16 am

Before I realised exactly what a higher level chunk would consist of difficulty wise, I didn't venture out of the level 1 zones, the only abandoned town types on my map that I could access were in level 2 or higher chunks.

I know its an early beta - :) but, as a professional tester myself (my 'day' job ;) ) I feel it is good to mention any thoughts/issues at the early stages instead of assuming it'll all be fixed by release - usually release time is too late for that stuff! lol

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 9:16 am

administrator   ~0015866

Yup, I gotcha -- and it's much appreciated.

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 9:26 am

reporter   ~0015870

I had to explain to a friend over dinner about the dungeon map and destroyed rooms, because he wasn't having huge amounts of fun. I don't think this is urgent, but it is important.

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 9:28 am

administrator   ~0015871

Well, there's already a suggestion to put the dungeon map on by default, so hopefully that will help with that.

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 9:28 am

reporter   ~0015872

Ooh, a professional tester. You people are worth your weight in high-grade fissionables, and massively underappreciated.

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 9:35 am

reporter   ~0015873

hehe :) you'd think so, but typically the devs just hate us!
Trouble with doing this for work is that you end up doing it by default. Case-in-point, this is my own time! lol

But lets not spam the thread ;) PM is always there

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 9:44 am

administrator   ~0015874

In my case, just for the record, I love the testers -- it's why we do open beta like this, is to get all the comments from players. There are always some standouts that seem almost like professional testers, but the idea of having a larger group of said folks for 8 hours a day is... mind boggling.

On the one hand it would be awesome, on the other hand sometimes the feedback can come overwhelmingly fast and thick. My reaction on the "it's early beta" bit above is mainly because I keep getting told that we need more early player guidance, but our release notes on the first version were specifically saying that was one of the things that were TBD. Then again, those release notes have been pretty well buried by now, heh.

Anyway, it's all good. We've been thinking of doing kind of an intro-segment that's a lot more interesting and useful than the adviser guardian stone bit alone, but just haven't had time. Though, I got to thinking about it a bit more since your post here, and now I think I've got a way that uses existing tools to basically provide a better way to handle this. We'll see how it goes. :)

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 9:57 am

reporter   ~0015878

While it might /look/ I'm doing this eight hours a day, I'm mostly doing it during "compiling!" time and after hours. (The last update of the day usually lands at about 2am my time, which is playing hell with my sleeping schedule, but so very worth it.)

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: Arcen Games has managed to build a community that is not only enthusiastic about beta-testing their products, but is willing to pay for the privilege. That's something special right there, and I'm really glad to be a part of it. :-)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 10:01 am

administrator   ~0015880

And you better believe we're grateful in return -- we'll use all the spare time you want to give us, but definitely don't burn yourself out!

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 10:16 am

reporter   ~0015883

Last edited: Oct 6, 2011 10:17 am

Well I'm pleased to meet both of you! :)

If I'm testing 'at work' everything has to be by the rule-book, you know - "Steps To Reproduce", "Observed Result", "Expected Result", "Category", "Reproduction rate".... on and on it makes me feel like a robot half the time, its quite refreshing to do this in a more informal way like we are at the moment, and, like I said earlier - it gets to the stage you start testing every game you play almost by default! lol

@x4000 - You're telling me, imagine having to play a game you don't even like, full time for months on end.... it truly is mind-boggling!

I feel for the developers as well though, churning through thousands of lines of code day after day, hour after hour, I bet it would get like you code in your sleep ;)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 10:19 am

administrator   ~0015884

Nice to meet you as well. :)

And yeah, the code -- or more specifically, the various "how would I best implement this specific thing" problems have a way of churning through the mind constantly, even when not at the computer. Oftentimes some solution will come out of nowhere and really surprise me when I'm not at the computer. Which is nice on the one hand, but sometimes I just want my brain back so it can do something else. ;)

Not that I should complain, because I love this job. But yeah, I hear you on working on games that you don't even like -- yikes. I've heard lots of horror stories over the years, and the new Trenches comic is pretty great at shining light on all that, too. I imagine you have some stories you could send to them. :)

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 10:27 am

reporter   ~0015886

Last edited: Oct 6, 2011 10:32 am

Yup :) actually been there too, I did J2ME porting for a time also. Regarding stories - I have one or two, yup, but then there's that pesky 'non-disclosure' contract to think about. Ah, but then - one might obfuscate some elements to get around that....

hrm.... *scheme* ;)
Oh ya, there's that one time.... a nasty bug was dubbed a 'feature - will not fix' lol that was fun because it came back to bite them....and one re-certifaction demand later...

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 10:33 am

administrator   ~0015888

Yeah, it's all anonymous there, and the whole obfuscation thing. :)

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 10:44 am

reporter   ~0015889

I'm enjoying watching the tracker and release notes as much as I'm enjoying playing the game. It arrived at the perfect time, because I've just finished judging pyweek games (quick plug: http://pyweek.org -- runs every six months or so, and I have games in four of the five most recent ones) and was in the right frame of mind.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy who can spend the whole day writing code for a living and then write different code in the evening to relax and have fun. I kind of like being able to give bugs to someone else to fix for a change instead of having to do it myself. Although... Chris, if you're ever looking for a (very) part time dev on the far side of the world to work on AI War and/or AVWW, I might be available. :-)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 10:48 am

administrator   ~0015890

Same thing here, I could always do the code during the day and then again in the night -- hence Arcen, heh.

Good to know on the potential availability -- right now things are fairly tight, but in the future it would be nice to be able to grow a little bit more.

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 10:48 am

reporter   ~0015891

haha :) Grats Jerith - and far side of the world being?...

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 10:54 am

reporter   ~0015892

x4000: That was a "ha ha only serious" offer. I love my current job, where I get to write code that makes a difference in the world and improves people's lives, but I always have various side projects on the go as well.

lisa107b: Cape Town, South Africa. Best city in world, but it would be nicer if we had better internet connectivity. :-)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 10:59 am

administrator   ~0015893

Sure, I understand -- no worries. And yeah, glad you like Cape Town. I had relatives who lived in Botswana for about 8 years, and they would come down to South Africa for various things every month or two. Now they're back in the US, and I can tell they really miss it.

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 11:13 am

reporter   ~0015896

@Jerith :) hehe from one side to the other - I'm in the Scotland (UK) :)

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 11:23 am

reporter   ~0015898

@x4000 are you another 'Notch' in the making? :) a one-man nuclear arsenal of games? lol

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 11:25 am

administrator   ~0015899

Heh, when I first started out -- about the same time Notch was first starting out -- it was just me. But my staff has grown for sure, and I sure don't take sole credit for what we're doing now.

tigersfan

Oct 6, 2011 11:55 am

reporter   ~0015902

Heh, sorry to go off topic.... :-)

Chris, I marked this as Major because I have see a few other complaints about this from other sources.

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 11:59 am

administrator   ~0015904

No worries -- I think it is something we need to address before this game will really take off with a wider audience, for sure. Which we always kind of knew was going to be the case, but prior to beta and the various feedback we've been getting it wasn't clear where we'd need to go with it.

jerith

Oct 6, 2011 12:19 pm

reporter   ~0015905

To go so far off topic that we get back from the other side, I think a more interactive introduction to the game is much better than an up front infodump, even if it takes the form of bite-sized hints from giant floating glowy things. More specifically, information should be presented where it's likely to be helpful, such as the first few times you encounter destroyed doors or grow out of your equipment or whatever.

I really have no idea how to go about doing such things in a way that isn't annoying (which is why I write scalable messaging systems and such instead of games), but I can certainly tell you when you've got it right. ;-)

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 12:22 pm

administrator   ~0015906

Yeah, an interactive sequence that you have to go through to start a new world is what I have in mind. Something that will be quick and easy to go through for experienced players, and which nets them benefits they'd want anyhow, as well as being something that gets new players trained in some of the basics like using wood platforms, etc.

I have a good idea on how to do that, I just need to make the time in the coming days. Perhaps this afternoon, we'll see.

lisa107b

Oct 6, 2011 12:24 pm

reporter   ~0015908

hehe Chris has an idea ;) best let him flesh it out and leave him be for a while :) looking forward to seeing the results.

Its always a thrill to see something implemented that you brought attention to :) so in a way, that's my reward for time spent! lol

Chris_McElligottPark

Oct 6, 2011 12:25 pm

administrator   ~0015909

And it's quite appreciated on this end, too!

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Oct 6, 2011 5:41 am lisa107b New Issue
Oct 6, 2011 5:42 am lisa107b Description Updated
Oct 6, 2011 5:42 am lisa107b Description Updated
Oct 6, 2011 5:43 am lisa107b Description Updated
Oct 6, 2011 8:57 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015858
Oct 6, 2011 9:05 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015860
Oct 6, 2011 9:07 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015862
Oct 6, 2011 9:14 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015864
Oct 6, 2011 9:16 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015864
Oct 6, 2011 9:16 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015866
Oct 6, 2011 9:26 am jerith Note Added: 0015870
Oct 6, 2011 9:28 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015871
Oct 6, 2011 9:28 am jerith Note Added: 0015872
Oct 6, 2011 9:35 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015873
Oct 6, 2011 9:44 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015874
Oct 6, 2011 9:57 am jerith Note Added: 0015878
Oct 6, 2011 10:01 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015880
Oct 6, 2011 10:16 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015883
Oct 6, 2011 10:17 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015883
Oct 6, 2011 10:19 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015884
Oct 6, 2011 10:27 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015886
Oct 6, 2011 10:29 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015886
Oct 6, 2011 10:30 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015886
Oct 6, 2011 10:31 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015886
Oct 6, 2011 10:32 am lisa107b Note Edited: 0015886
Oct 6, 2011 10:33 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015888
Oct 6, 2011 10:44 am jerith Note Added: 0015889
Oct 6, 2011 10:48 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015890
Oct 6, 2011 10:48 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015891
Oct 6, 2011 10:54 am jerith Note Added: 0015892
Oct 6, 2011 10:59 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015893
Oct 6, 2011 11:13 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015896
Oct 6, 2011 11:23 am lisa107b Note Added: 0015898
Oct 6, 2011 11:25 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015899
Oct 6, 2011 11:54 am tigersfan Internal Weight => Major Problem
Oct 6, 2011 11:54 am tigersfan Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Oct 6, 2011 11:54 am tigersfan Status new => assigned
Oct 6, 2011 11:55 am tigersfan Note Added: 0015902
Oct 6, 2011 11:59 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015904
Oct 6, 2011 12:19 pm jerith Note Added: 0015905
Oct 6, 2011 12:22 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015906
Oct 6, 2011 12:24 pm lisa107b Note Added: 0015908
Oct 6, 2011 12:25 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0015909
Jan 27, 2012 10:09 am tigersfan Status assigned => closed
Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am Chris_McElligottPark Category Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue