View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000475 | AI War 1 / Classic | Balance Issue | Oct 14, 2010 7:44 am | Oct 21, 2010 12:52 am | |
| Reporter | Moonshine Fox | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 3.712 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 3.718 | ||||
| Summary | 0000475: Unusually high threat levels on game start. | ||||
| Description | It appears the game starts with about 1600 or so threat, mostly high level (Mk III-IV) ships. They instantly, as soon as the game starts, go for my homeworld. No matter how many times I restart the game, on this map I will start with 1629 threat right off the bat. Save attached, map seed is 1129394531. I've tried generating a couple of more galaxies and it seems to be completely random. I always start with some threat (usually around 60-200) but every 3-4 games I will get a huge number, surpassing 1500 and then get squashed only minutes later. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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I have had this problem to a couple of times in the resent betas. From what I have seen, even if other ships may be mixed in with the wave it's only tachyon micro fighters that are lvl. III/IV and make up the bulk of the wave. |
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That would be my experience as well. The vast majority of the waves are tachyon microfighters, they do however seem to pull along a couple of other types of ships. |
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* The number of ships that are seeded into planets on new games now scales down with the overall ship cap scale that was chosen. The lack of this was often causing large groups of AI ships to bumrush players on any unit scales other than high. * Now if there is any threat within the first 60 seconds of a new game, those threatening ships are instead added to special forces. This catches any overflow from the start of a game, just in case. |
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This still occurs, only later in the game. Usually 1-2 minutes in. Also see 0000571 which is a duplicate of this report, only for 3.715. |
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There is still some problem with odd threat and attacks. In this particular game "tobias.sav" I keep getting hit with Mk III vampires, starships and even the odd Mark V vampire at regular intervals. I have no such planets even near that are alerted. |
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Another savegame added. I hope you nail this one, because it's really eating into my enjoyment right now. |
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Just started a game in 3.717 and threat behaved as expected. Not sure one game is enough to call this resolved but it is a good sign at least. |
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Have you been scouting at all? I'm pretty sure it's scouts stirring up the enemy planets. |
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In my game, I didn't scout at all until I had 10+ turrets and 100+ fleetships flying around. I think a few AI ships came and said hello after I started scouting, but they were easily handled. Edit: I just loaded up the murder.sav you attached (in version 3.717). For the 21 minute mark of the game, that does not seem out of line, do you have an earlier save or can you remember the numbers at all? Edit the 2nd: murder.sav loads at 21mins gametime, I just fought off the next AI wave at 30 mins gametime without losing more then a couple fighters. You still seeing this issue in 3.717? |
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Cool. :) |
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That's very odd, because I've been having waves of 15-50 Mk IIIs and IVs flowing into the system at a steady pace ever since about the 5-7 minute mark. Once you load up the Murder.sav, you can see that there are several high mark ships in system, and if you check the map, you see I have scouted two systems, none of which are high level. I'll try a game and simply don't scout. Period. We'll see what happens. EDIT: Dazio, so you're saying that in murder.sav you do not get the MK III ships (primarily cloakers, but also a couple of parasites and MLRSs) attacking you? |
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Alright, just ran a test in a new game in 3.717. Spamming nothing but scouts as soon as the game loads, the initial force of threat=0 for the first minute or so works. By about 00:01:00 I've got 14 planets scouted and threat jumps to 30 about the 00:01:30 mark. Watching my threat meter, I can see it jump by 10 (give or take) every time my scouts enter a new system. In my opinion this is reasonable, scouting shouldn't be totally without risk. Having said that, the initial wave of AI ships that arrive from my scouting at about the 00:02:00 minute mark include 2 flagships, the second wave at about 00:03:00 adds a raid starship. Letting the game run after my command station goes boom (I built nothing but scouts) I end up with 100 ships even in my system (including the 3 starships), a threat of 0, with 16 systems scouted. Assuming the starships get a nerf (which it sounds like they will from other threads) I see nothing actually wrong here. It would require tweaking the tutorials so that people know that scouting will now generate a small amount of threat but that's something I actually like. Or make it so scouts can't aggro starships, only fleet ships or something. Edit: Fox: Upon loading murder.sav I see 82 ships in my system with a threat of 10. Between the 75 friendly ships built and spam building fighters the defences in system hold long enough for me to clear the system. I don't remember threat just appearing in my earlier game, going to run through this again quickly to see. |
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Or am I just overreacting? Because, sure I can barely handle the high mark ships, but I can imagine any newbie or less patient fellow getting superfrustrated by these constant attacks this early and without any kind of warning. Unless you run with CPA-type waves and no wave warnings, this kind of thing shouldn't happen. At least not this early and not with such high mark ships. |
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Yes, if threat is just jumping out of nowhere then there's an issue. The problem is, I can't see what's happened previously in the murder.sav and at the 21 minute mark a lot has already happened. I've turtled up in a fresh load of murder.sav, watching the threat now.... Edit(1): One oddity I do see is that Rexdin (above the homesystem) is showing a green icon like it has been scouted, but on mouse-over it says "Never been scouted" |
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My problem isn't really with the threat itself or the incursions, but the fact that they're all so high marked at this early in the game. If they were simply Mk Is they would be much easily handled and even a newbie (or trash RTS player like me) would have an easier time surviving. |
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Ohhh, "Devourer golem at Rexadin" and a few second late threat jumps by about 15 or so. This is maybe the Devourer golem cutting loose ships again and spiking the threat count? As for the high mark issue, I just scouted Rexadin, it's a Mk IV planet right next to your homeworld. Edit: And the trader also just came though. I'm thinking neutrals need a look, it looks like they might be activating AI ships which then proceed to come and attack the player. |
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*massive facepalm* Apparently one of my ships got kidnapped into Rexdin and since normal fleetships aren't scouts, the planet was just marked as "explored" but doesn't have a mark sign on the galaxy map, so I was sure it was a Mk I. Hm, okay now that things are starting to get a bit clearer, I'm getting more at ease with the situation. My previous statements applies though. |
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Ya, now that I'm playing longer, I'm seeing these threat spikes out of nowhere also. Trying to track them down now..... |
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All the high level ships are coming from the Barkjer/Xishlo direction, both of which are Mk III and have AI Eyes on them. Could these be the culprit? |
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Possibly. Still playing turtle, I just had *guardians* attack me as if I'd aggro'd a new star system. I haven't scouted a new starsystem in 15+ minutes gametime and I certainly haven't attacked anything. I tracked a lot of the threat from Revhasdin (up and left) which also has an Eye. Edit: Whoops, alt-tabbed too much, just lost my command station. :/ Having said that, it's got to be either neutrals (trader/devourer/etc.) aggroing the AI or the new Eye structure is activating when it shouldn't. |
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Speaking of which, once I got my turtling up a bit I can now reliably protect my home system and have even claimed Zilar and Chaenanqa. The threat is still at the same levels, with occasional Mk II-Mk IVs visiting. But at this stage it's not a problem anymore. |
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Okay, WTF? Playing my own game now, not the murder.sav that is attached to this message I'm seeing this odd threat also. Including a Mk V (five) guardian that just warped into my home planet. I only control 4 planets and haven't come anywhere near either AI home system yet. |
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This was fixed in 3.718. It won't help all existing savegames, though it will help some of them. |
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Are we sure this is fixed? I played a game just now, and without ever scouting a planet I had about 80 threat in the first few minutes (difficulty 7.6). The first few ships to come in were mark I-II, but soon I had several mark IVs in system, too. |
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SalientBlue, there's another fix in for 3.719 that isn't yet out: Fixed bug where minor faction ships firing upon AI guardians (and other AI ships guarding a guard post) could lead to those AI ships turning into threat, by no fault of the human player. Basically our dear friend the Devourer Golem was up to his old tricks. |
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Gotta love the Devourer :D |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Oct 14, 2010 7:44 am | Moonshine Fox | New Issue | |
| Oct 14, 2010 7:44 am | Moonshine Fox | File Added: megathreat.sav | |
| Oct 14, 2010 7:45 am | Moonshine Fox | File Added: AIWar 2010-10-14 13-14-41-47.png | |
| Oct 14, 2010 7:46 am | Moonshine Fox | File Added: AIWar 2010-10-14 13-19-51-07.png | |
| Oct 14, 2010 8:50 am | Ixiohm | Note Added: 0000817 | |
| Oct 14, 2010 9:02 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0000818 | |
| Oct 15, 2010 10:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0000922 | |
| Oct 15, 2010 10:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => resolved |
| Oct 15, 2010 10:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 3.715 |
| Oct 15, 2010 10:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Oct 15, 2010 10:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Oct 16, 2010 5:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0000932 | |
| Oct 16, 2010 5:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Status | resolved => feedback |
| Oct 16, 2010 5:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Resolution | fixed => reopened |
| Oct 17, 2010 4:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001086 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 4:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Status | feedback => assigned |
| Oct 17, 2010 4:56 am | Moonshine Fox | File Added: Tobias.sav | |
| Oct 17, 2010 4:57 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Edited: 0001086 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 10:56 am | Moonshine Fox | File Added: murder.sav | |
| Oct 17, 2010 10:56 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001099 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:26 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001106 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:29 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001107 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:36 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001113 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:39 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001115 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:45 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001113 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 12:51 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001113 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:01 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001129 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:02 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Edited: 0001129 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:04 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001130 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:08 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001131 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:10 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001130 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:11 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001130 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:15 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001132 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:15 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001133 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:17 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001132 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:21 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001138 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:23 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001138 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:30 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001142 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:32 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001143 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:38 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001144 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:46 pm | Dazio | Note Added: 0001147 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 1:48 pm | Dazio | Note Edited: 0001147 | |
| Oct 17, 2010 3:28 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001157 | |
| Oct 18, 2010 12:06 am | Dazio | Note Added: 0001170 | |
| Oct 18, 2010 10:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0001257 | |
| Oct 18, 2010 10:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | assigned => resolved |
| Oct 18, 2010 10:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | 3.715 => 3.718 |
| Oct 18, 2010 10:16 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | reopened => fixed |
| Oct 19, 2010 1:30 pm | SalientBlue | Note Added: 0001311 | |
| Oct 19, 2010 1:32 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0001312 | |
| Oct 19, 2010 1:34 pm | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0001313 | |
| Apr 14, 2014 9:29 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Category | Gameplay - Balance Issue => Balance Issue |
