View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryLast Update
0007221Valley 1SuggestionMay 2, 2012 10:37 am
ReporterPenumbra Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status closedResolutionnot fixable 
Summary0007221: Replace "Detection Line" with an Aura
DescriptionThis line, while very useful, has been mistaken at least once as a Debug feature. I think this is because the line is always pointing at the player. This makes it look like the monsters know where you are already, even though you aren't in range. If it were instead an aura around the monster, this misconception would go away while losing very little of the functionality.

This could be either a light source or just a circle. The light source would go towards assistance in not being surprised by enemies, and is easily explained in the story by the monsters just using the light to find the player. This would feel more like the vision cone in Metal Gear, a mechanic players are already accustomed to.

TagsNo tags attached.
Internal WeightFeature Suggestion

Relationships

related to 0006230 considering Stealth - A visible view range on the mini map 
related to 0007201 closedChris_McElligottPark Enemy with a bright white "line of sight" line in a dark room 
has duplicate 0007316 closedChris_McElligottPark Change "Stealth Line" to "Stealth Circle" 

Activities

martyn_van_buren

Apr 23, 2012 7:24 pm

reporter   ~0022622

I like the idea of a "hostility aura" on enemies, possibly faintly visible through dark. The lines now don't fit the visual style of the game all that well, and honestly I find them a bit hard to read --- I really want to know whether an enemy is active when I look at it, not look at my character and follow lines to see who's chasing him.

Not having seen this feature in multiplayer, are all player's lines visible, or just your own? If you can see whether enemies are aware of your allies an aura would lose that functionality.

Terraziel

Apr 23, 2012 8:15 pm

reporter   ~0022624

I think the problem with doing it as circles, let alone vague circles, is what happens when they overlap? especially once enemies have already detected you where one circle can cover the entire region, it could quickly degenerate into the circles obscuring each other and making it hard to tell what is going on.

In defense of the lines themselves they are pretty easy to read, if the line from the enemy is blue they haven't detected you, if they have it turns red and sticks to the centre of your character.

Now just for clarity I do agree that the lines look like a debugging tool, and would prefer a nice light radius-esque effect as well, it just needs to provide the same level of function and clarity that the lines do.

martyn_van_buren

Apr 23, 2012 8:27 pm

reporter   ~0022625

Last edited: Apr 23, 2012 8:27 pm

That said, do we really need all the information we're getting now? Supposing we had a system where an enemy just turned red when it detected a player, and it wasn't very clear in stacks. Wouldn't that communicate the basic information that we've hit a sneaking snafu and need to do something about it?

Terraziel

Apr 23, 2012 8:42 pm

reporter   ~0022626

Doing that is almost the same as it not displaying the info at all, as an enemy that has detected you is probably trying to kill you in one way or another.

Penumbra

Apr 23, 2012 11:00 pm

reporter   ~0022629

Having the light radius would tell you "how not to be seen" ;)

If two or more monsters double up, well, so be it, don't stand there!

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 28, 2012 11:20 pm

administrator   ~0022952

The performance impact of those would be immeasurably larger. 1000% more GPU load? Something like that. It would vary by the range of the enemy, and actually would be something like... logarithmic increase by detection size?

Penumbra

Apr 28, 2012 11:22 pm

reporter   ~0022953

Ah, yeah. That's probably why, in multiplayer, other players don't give off light. Should have seen that.

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 28, 2012 11:23 pm

administrator   ~0022954

The light thing in MP actually isn't a performance issue -- counterintuitively, other players giving off light would actually increase rather than decrease performance. That one is just a logical limitation that we need to address at some point before long.

Penumbra

Apr 28, 2012 11:27 pm

reporter   ~0022956

Hmm, and now I have to ask why. That's really interesting. Is "darkness" the overlay? How is light around players different from light around players?

Sorry, lots of questions :)

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 28, 2012 11:29 pm

administrator   ~0022957

Drawing darkness is expensive. Light is never drawn -- it draws less darkness overlay. Darkness is of a fixed size and density per screen resolution, and few people wander around in the complete dark. Enemy detection rand overlays could individually be several screens wide and that overdraw will kill most graphics cards. Not mine, but quite a lot of players would be unable to play stealth missions suddenly.

Penumbra

Apr 28, 2012 11:32 pm

reporter   ~0022959

So, wouldn't not drawing darkness around around enemies to represent their detection range help performance?

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 28, 2012 11:35 pm

administrator   ~0022960

It wouldn't be remotely clear or granular enough I wouldn't think.

Penumbra

Apr 28, 2012 11:50 pm

reporter   ~0022961

Last edited: Apr 28, 2012 11:51 pm

Hmm. True. I don't know. I keep harping on stealth, sorry about that ;) but I will probably continue to both harp and be apologetic ;)

That being said, I'll continue. What if stealth were based on darkness. Then, the light sources of enemies would be obvious danger. The player would need to avoid light. Casting light orb all over the place would be bad. Casting flash of light would immediately attract all enemies, which it should.
The lights hanging from the ceiling would have to be destroyed. Shooting out the lights in a stealth mission is an awesome thing!

Platforming in the dark is hard, so maybe there could be a minor "see in the dark" enchant instead of reduced detectability. There could be darkness spells, the opposite of light orb. Would be a terrific balance of how, currently, casting light everywhere is always the right answer.

Maybe "see in the dark" would instead add a glowy wireframe around floors in a limited radius to allow navigation.

Ok, that's enough stream of consciousness for a weekend ;)

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 29, 2012 12:04 am

administrator   ~0022967

What you're suggesting entails basically redoing an existing functional mechanic to be less clear in UI terms, and encourages walking around in he dark which is literally impossible depending on your monitor brightness. As a general rule, thigs that require hours of dev time to recreate something that we already have are something that I view with great skepticism to begin with. That dev time could be spent on far more interesting things, I think.

Penumbra

Apr 29, 2012 12:11 am

reporter   ~0022971

Consider it dropped.... For now. ;) I'm just going to go back to enjoying the game.

Bluddy

Apr 29, 2012 1:45 am

reporter   ~0022980

Just to make the observation I made before in the forums, if we eventually get full ambient sound effects for all creatures (that increase in volume as the creatures come near), this mission could even have the visual marker be optional.

Penumbra

May 2, 2012 10:37 am

reporter   ~0023271

I know I said I would drop it, but I just had an idea. As to this:

"encourages walking around in he dark which is literally impossible depending on your monitor brightness"

The "detection rating" could dictated how bright a spot you could be in and still be invisible. That, coupled with some other creative "see in the dark" spells, would only require people to be in complete darkness when at 0% stealth. Stealth Missions, which give the innate 50% would just be darker, not pitch black.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Apr 23, 2012 5:19 pm Penumbra New Issue
Apr 23, 2012 5:19 pm Penumbra Relationship added related to 0006230
Apr 23, 2012 5:20 pm Penumbra Relationship added related to 0007201
Apr 23, 2012 5:21 pm tigersfan Internal Weight => Feature Suggestion
Apr 23, 2012 5:21 pm tigersfan Status new => considering
Apr 23, 2012 7:24 pm martyn_van_buren Note Added: 0022622
Apr 23, 2012 8:15 pm Terraziel Note Added: 0022624
Apr 23, 2012 8:27 pm martyn_van_buren Note Added: 0022625
Apr 23, 2012 8:27 pm martyn_van_buren Note Edited: 0022625
Apr 23, 2012 8:42 pm Terraziel Note Added: 0022626
Apr 23, 2012 11:00 pm Penumbra Note Added: 0022629
Apr 28, 2012 10:22 pm Penumbra Relationship added has duplicate 0007316
Apr 28, 2012 11:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0022952
Apr 28, 2012 11:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status considering => closed
Apr 28, 2012 11:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Apr 28, 2012 11:20 pm Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => not fixable
Apr 28, 2012 11:22 pm Penumbra Note Added: 0022953
Apr 28, 2012 11:23 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0022954
Apr 28, 2012 11:27 pm Penumbra Note Added: 0022956
Apr 28, 2012 11:29 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0022957
Apr 28, 2012 11:32 pm Penumbra Note Added: 0022959
Apr 28, 2012 11:35 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0022960
Apr 28, 2012 11:50 pm Penumbra Note Added: 0022961
Apr 28, 2012 11:51 pm Penumbra Note Edited: 0022961
Apr 29, 2012 12:04 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0022967
Apr 29, 2012 12:11 am Penumbra Note Added: 0022971
Apr 29, 2012 1:45 am Bluddy Note Added: 0022980
May 2, 2012 10:37 am Penumbra Note Added: 0023271
Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am Chris_McElligottPark Category Suggestion - General Idea => Suggestion - General
Apr 14, 2014 9:30 am Chris_McElligottPark Category Suggestion - General => Suggestion