View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0011053 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - AI Behavior And Tactics | Apr 11, 2013 4:48 pm | Apr 16, 2013 3:31 pm | |
| Reporter | Hearteater | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 6.018 | ||||
| Summary | 0011053: Super Wave to test if game is lost | ||||
| Description | Ok, so this is to address the issue of the player is losing, but the AI just won't do them the courtesy of finishing them off. So the AI gets something which I'll call a Super Wave just because. It should be based on AIP and tech level, stronger than a normal wave, but probably due to having a higher percentage of Starships rather than just more fleet ships. Think a regular max wave with +1 Starship per 10-20 AIP, maybe a few extra things for flavor. Ideally, if your in good shape, you can stop this wave. It might hurt, but it shouldn't hurt as much as an Exo, especially since it is launched just like a normal wave (maybe use Counter Attack GP deep strike logic?). I picked Starships because they are tough to kill when your defenses are down, but their DPS isn't as high as an equal "point value" of Bombers. So what triggers this Super Wave? If everything goes well, you'll never meet one. It only triggers when you are doing bad. You gain points towards triggering one when you lose Command Stations, important destructables, Fortress or other big items (non-suicidal Spirecraft, Golems, etc.), Starships to a lesser degree, or large amounts of fleet ships in a short time (measured as a % of your unlocked max fleet ship cap). But whenever you accomplish objectives, you reduce some or all of these points. Capture an AI system and they go to zero. But even destroying a Guard Post might take off a point or two. Basically, as long as you are advancing against the AI, this number goes down. When the AI is advancing against you, it goes up. Unlike AIP this isn't a permanent hit. Losing a player CS pushes you closer to a Super Wave, but it doesn't permanently make the game harder like say +20 AIP would. Also, although a Super Wave might be tough, it isn't impossible to stop at all (Exos are much tougher) so setting the threshold a little low to catch people who get set on their back foot a little too long really helps keep the pace up without automatically ending the game. TL;DR: It's short-term AIP really, used to trigger a "is the player out of the game yet?" wave. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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No need to give the AI more tools to kill the player. Instead it needs to know better how to use the tools it already has. If the game is locked into a stalemate, it needs to realize that and that the player can't beat all of it's forces at once. It should be able to call a large cross planet attack to free more forces when stalemate is detected and then use those forces to stage an attack. |
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The AI can already do a cross-planet attack every 0000003:0000005 hours, which meets the definition of said super-wave. There's also other tools that the AI can use that don't need a super wave. For example, a Backdoor Hacker can unload a large wave at point blank. |
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CPAs just release threat, which may or may not attack the player. That just increases the stalemate. It is very easy to have a strong enough defense that 2 or 3 CPAs are required before the AI attacks. No game should take 6-12 hours to tell you you've lost. None of the AIs tools have follow up. The way the threat mechanic works means if the AI attacks at all, it attacks with everything available. It can never add anything if things go well. |
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Hearteater, it's strange. Do they not probe your defenses looking for weakness? They do to me all the time. I continuously find out that World X is under attack by a large wave the second I pull forces to deal with something else. That is what the threat is used for, to keep your forces occupied countering said threat. It's like a cold war. Seriously, if I ever find myself in a situation where I can't push out, it's because the AI is about to send that massive wave if I try. No need to give them another massive wave, because it'll come regardless if you aren't able to break the stalemate somehow. |
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The AI does not probe. It all-ins with threat if its evaluation says it can win. Otherwise it waits. This is why you are able to bait and control the AI threat. This also means if you keep threat pruned down, the AI has nothing at all to threaten you. You CAN lose if the AI builds up too much threat because eventually it will all-in. But until the higher difficulties, it actually mis-evaluates how strong it is and it all-ins into a losing fight, effectively suiciding on your defenses. Really the only true way to lose--once you aren't making mistakes from inexperience--is to have a ton of threat waiting at the same time a big wave/double wave or Exo hits. That's the only time the amount of AI force can jump enough that it does its all-in with enough power to finish you. |
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The AI doesn't take things into consideration like how much real time it takes you to move forces around either, or how long it'll take it to complete it's objectives (so reinforcements can arrive). This is on any difficulty that I've seen. If you're smart you can always trick the AI to all in a losing battle. Regardless, I've been looking at the new AIP reinforcements mechanics, and this whole stalemate issue may be a moot point now. Before the latest beta I was looking at 6k threat constantly, I could maybe push it down to 3k if I tricked the AI to all in, but this at AIP 330ish. Now after the beta patch even if I sit around doing nothing, threat never rises far above 200, so there really is never a stalemate to speak of. Perhaps we should table this till the new mechanics have had their kinks worked out, and things have been rebalanced again. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 11, 2013 4:48 pm | Hearteater | New Issue | |
| Apr 12, 2013 2:35 pm | Chthonic One | Note Added: 0031484 | |
| Apr 13, 2013 1:48 pm | Sigma7 | Note Added: 0031489 | |
| Apr 15, 2013 9:30 am | Hearteater | Note Added: 0031490 | |
| Apr 16, 2013 5:09 am | Chthonic One | Note Added: 0031495 | |
| Apr 16, 2013 9:34 am | Hearteater | Note Added: 0031496 | |
| Apr 16, 2013 3:31 pm | Chthonic One | Note Added: 0031504 |
