View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001166 | AI War 1 / Classic | Bug - Other | Nov 6, 2010 8:15 pm | Feb 10, 2011 3:34 pm | |
| Reporter | rustayne | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | reopened | ||
| Product Version | 4.028 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 4.070 | ||||
| Summary | 0001166: CPA's are broken | ||||
| Description | I'm playing a new game on the 4.029 client, and we are on our second CPA, at 7:49. The CPA was supposed to be 5,174. Sadly, it came in under 900 ships. I'm posting 3 saves for you. One from about 8 mins out, before we noticed it, one at 8 seconds before the CPA hits, and one after it hits. Hopefully this will help you track it down. If you need us to test anything regarding this, please let me know. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
| parent of | 0002530 | closed | keith.lamothe | CPAs should be smaller if including a higher mark ship. |
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4.029.sav is 8 minutes before the CPA is due to hit. 4.029b.sav is after the CPA by a minute. 4.029c.sav is 8 seconds before the CPA hits. |
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I see the AI ships are the basic triangle |
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just an uneducated guess: is it possible the non-triangle ships were somehow counted into the CPA? That seems a little far fetched but I can't know hoe the engine works. It just sounds like a semi logical explanation since the bugs are occurring at the same time |
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There is currently a bug floating around where the AI does not get other ships except the triangle...could be the cause? |
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In our game we had all the ships types that the game was offering. At that time, we also had vampires, Zenith Chameleon's, and Zenith Polarizers, which the AI brought to the fight during the CPA. So unless I'm missing something, it isn't just triangle ships coming to the CPA. |
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Not sure if this is related or a separate issue but in a 4.029 generated game I am seeing very low numbers of ships in warp waves. Like 4 Bombers or 3 fighters & that's with defaults for the AI's (difficulty 6, both Random Easier). In v3 waves would at least be in double figures, usually around 25-35 ships per wave with the same level of AI Progress (not high enough to trigger level 2 ships). There no difference between the number of ships the wave notifications show & the amount you actually get in system though, the notifications are saying "4 AI 2 Bombers" etc. [edit] nevermind. Generated another new 4.029 game & I've just got a 22 bomber, 1 starship wave from AI 2 & a 20 bomber, 1 starship wave from AI 1 simultaneously to my homeworld. |
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Think that might be a separate issue Malibu. I know for our game we had normal wave sizes throughout the game, or what would be expected I should say. I would also like to point out, as far as the bug goes with just triangle ships showing up in the CPA, or where the AI isn't getting any other ship types, that the AI is definitely getting other ship types, and that when a CPA hits, it is using all of them, not just the 3 core types of ships. The last CPA our game had before we called it, was a CPA of 9500 ships, but only received about 4k or so. There was definitely all the ship types the AI had available to itself at that time, and while a little challenge to us, was not nearly as hard as it should of been if it were 9k ships total. We currently own like 50 planets, And our AI progress is around 1200 or so. Another interesting note, the AI only has 4.8k ships at this point in time, after the CPA it sent us. I'm not sure if it is related to it or not, but my feeling is if we get another CPA, it is either not going to happen at all, or it will cripple the AI in terms of ship counts. We currently with what ships we have unlocked, and researched, almost outnumber it as it is. |
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Thanks! * When cross planet attacks arrive, they now state (via chat messages) how many ships of each mark level were just freed. * To prevent AI ships from unnecessarily "sticking" under force fields, they will now only stay in place if they are actually guarding a ship. This will prevent all sorts of issues with them. * Going along with the above, AI ships will no longer be freed from their guard posts due to anger/alerting on their part or the part of their guard posts if they are under a forcefield. * When looking for ships to add as part of a CPA, the AI now also looks inside barracks and pulls ships out to use in the CPA. Some (but definitely not all) of the smaller-than-they-should-have-been CPAs were relate to lots of ships being stuck in barracks. * When there are simply too few ships in the galaxy for the desired tech level of CPA, in the past it always has counted downwards. ** So, for example, if you were supposed to get 5000 mark II ships in a CPA but it could only find 1000, then it would look to mark I ships to see if it could find any more. ** However, there were many common cases where there would even still be too few ships in the galaxy of the correct or lower levels. Now the game will loop back around and start including higher mark ships. *** So, to continue the example from above, if it had found 1000 mark II ships and, say, 500 mark I ships, then it would start adding mark III ships to the CPA as well. Odds are very good that it would find the remaining 3500 ships in even just one mark higher, so that would fulfill the order for 5000 ships. *** Of course, in the event that it doesn't find enough ships directly in the level above, it just keeps counting up, all the way to mark V. ** Bear in mind that certain ships are specifically excluded from CPAs: immobile ships, ships under force fields, ships in carriers, ships that are already free/threat, ships that are minor factions or zombies, ships that are being coordinated by a hybrid hive or similar, ships that aren't counted as "extended mobile military," starships, and guardians. These restrictions aren't new, but bear mentioning. |
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Very cool chris. I will start a new game up and work on getting to the point where it breaks and report back to ya if it is still broken. Thanks for looking into it. |
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Sounds good! Thanks! :) |
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You do adjust their numbers when they start including higher mk ships I hope? I'd hate to see a CPA of 5k mk2 ship turn out to have 1k mk2, 500 mk1, and 3500 mk3 and above ships in them .. I'd think that would make it a slightly harder to counter CPA :D |
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Nope, no adjustments on the higher mark ships. Better have a nuke handy if you think the galaxy had run out of lower-level ships. It says x number of ships, and by golly players are going to get that x number. They tend to get quite unhappy when they don't. ;) |
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Guess I'll be unlocking more turrets from now on than :D |
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It is still kind of broken. In the AI's defense it only had 12k total ships when it decided to launch a 10k CPA at me, and it looks like it took those that were already free from waves and border aggression and made them join, but it wasn't the 10k CPA that it said. It only managed to get up 7,437 ships total from the messages of what was released. I will attach the saves so you can take a look. |
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It got worse come the next CPA. It was to be a 13k cpa, but only 1.8k ships got released. The AI only had 5.6k ships total left in the galaxy. I didn't bother to make saves for them as I figured it was futile. Just wanted to post that it isn't by a small amount anymore. It still is a pretty big bug if you play as long as I do. |
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rustayne -- in those cases, the CPA isn't broken, the AI just doesn't have enough ships. It's not allowed to use ships that are already free, or ships from its homeworlds, or ships in a few other circumstances (under forcefields, I believe). In extreme cases like you're describing, that's the expected result. The AI doesn't gain new ships to use as part of the CPA, unlike a wave, so if there simply aren't enough valid ships, period, then the CPA will sort of fizzle, and that's perfectly correct. |
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Well doesn't this make the end game for those who play past 20 hours to be alot easier? I know that my game style is one of the unique ones, and I wouldn't expect you to change the way it works solely for my game style or anything, but it does seem like the farther you play, the easier it gets. I'm at almost 2k AI progress, and the waves aren't really harder, and now I have no fear of CPA's. The only challenge left for me is this new stalking tactics, as the AI loves waiting til I'm in the middle of something to throw 3-4k ships at me. :) Not to say it isn't enough or anything, I was just curious what your viewpoint on it is. |
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Well, to be honest, we don't balance with those extreme games in mind as much as we do the shorter games. I'd love for those games to work well, but in terms of the CPA rules, they assume a larger AI presence, so if you get the AI down too low, then that aspect gets easy by nature. For the waves, ideally those would also be a challenge, but past a certain point of bottlenecking you simple outmass the AI. I don't really have specific design goals for your sort of game, it's really one of those edge cases where if you've survived that long, you've mostly won in general. Presumably there's nothing stopping you from just stomping over to the AI home planets and vaporizing them. Once you hit that point in the game... the decision to keep playing is likely to lead to an easier game, though of course you can still lose if the AI catches you unawares. The trick is even to get to that point at all -- man that's an uphill battle. 1000 AIP kills most folks, and if it's not killing you then perhaps you're playing below your skill level, honestly. |
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Add in Golems (hard) and Spirecraft (hard) and I guarantee you won't be bored at 2k AIP. |
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Also, make sure when reopening, you actually click the reopen button, not just set the resolution to reopened. The reopen button will do that and set the status to feedback, making it far more visible. |
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Yea, I think I might up the skill level in my next game to 7.6 and try with the golems and such on, and add in hybrids again. It isn't to say that it is totally easy by any regard, it is just that all the new map types aside from crosshatch make it very easy to hold up in one area, if you know what your doing. And that is fine that I'm an edge case, I completely understand. :) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov 6, 2010 8:15 pm | rustayne | New Issue | |
| Nov 6, 2010 8:15 pm | rustayne | File Added: 4.029.sav | |
| Nov 6, 2010 8:15 pm | rustayne | File Added: 4.029b.sav | |
| Nov 6, 2010 8:15 pm | rustayne | File Added: 4.029c.sav | |
| Nov 6, 2010 8:17 pm | rustayne | Note Added: 0002858 | |
| Nov 7, 2010 12:51 am | Winter Born | Note Added: 0002865 | |
| Nov 7, 2010 1:54 am | DakaSha | Note Added: 0002870 | |
| Nov 7, 2010 6:41 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0002875 | |
| Nov 7, 2010 11:43 am | rustayne | Note Added: 0002877 | |
| Nov 8, 2010 10:06 am | Malibu Stacey | Note Added: 0002927 | |
| Nov 8, 2010 3:05 pm | Malibu Stacey | Note Edited: 0002927 | |
| Nov 8, 2010 4:51 pm | rustayne | Note Added: 0002976 | |
| Nov 8, 2010 4:52 pm | rustayne | Note Edited: 0002976 | |
| Jan 3, 2011 8:10 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Jan 3, 2011 8:10 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => confirmed |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:05 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0009048 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:05 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | confirmed => resolved |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:05 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Fixed in Version | => 4.070 |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:05 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:27 am | rustayne | Note Added: 0009050 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:35 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0009052 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:41 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0009053 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:47 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0009054 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 3:50 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0009055 | |
| Jan 18, 2011 2:44 pm | Red Spot | Relationship added | parent of 0002530 |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:38 am | rustayne | Note Added: 0010120 | |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:38 am | rustayne | Note Edited: 0010120 | |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:39 am | rustayne | Resolution | fixed => reopened |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:39 am | rustayne | File Added: 5.0 Start of 10k cpa.sav | |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:39 am | rustayne | File Added: 5.0 Start of 10k cpa 10 seconds til impact.sav | |
| Feb 8, 2011 11:40 am | rustayne | File Added: 5.0 Start of 10k cpa 10 After launch..sav | |
| Feb 9, 2011 11:22 am | rustayne | Note Added: 0010201 | |
| Feb 9, 2011 11:25 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0010202 | |
| Feb 9, 2011 3:34 pm | rustayne | Note Added: 0010206 | |
| Feb 9, 2011 3:49 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0010207 | |
| Feb 9, 2011 8:54 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0010211 | |
| Feb 9, 2011 9:22 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0010213 | |
| Feb 10, 2011 3:34 pm | rustayne | Note Added: 0010243 |
