View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0014482 | The Last Federation | Gameplay Idea | Apr 23, 2014 2:21 am | Jan 23, 2015 8:02 am | |
| Reporter | Raide | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.003 (Permadeath Becomes Optional) | ||||
| Summary | 0014482: Vassal-Liege System | ||||
| Description | In the current state of the game, wars always lead to single outcome: genocide, and a single victor taking over an entire planet for themselves. It's pretty simplistic model but also unrealistic. What I suggest is liege-vassal relation similar to Crusader Kings 2 system. Wars 1. A race may surrender to overwhelming force, for example after they lost their bomb shelter and 90% of ground troops. 2. In case of multiple attackers, there'll a method to decide to which attacker they surrendered to, such as the one who cause more damage to them. 3. If the target planet is considered to be too incompatible with the attacker, they'll consider vassalization. OTOH if the target planet is very compatible with the attacker, they might consider completely taking over (genocide). 4. Thoraxian take no prisoners, since they'd rather breed on the corpses of their enemies; Boarines might be blinded with rage momentum; Burlusts would consider vassals as excellent trophies which will boost their morale. 5. Peltians tend to surrender easily since they're cowards; Skylaxians depend on their current Senate formation; Burlusts are too proud to surrender. Outcome: Vassalization. 1. As a Vassal, their autonomy is limited, but they're let to manage their own planet, instead of the conqueror having to manage one extra planet alongside their original. 2. Player's ability to do Friendly Acts or to negotiate with Vassals is limited, but opens new possibilities such as supporting rebellion against the Liege. 3. The Liege gets to meddle in the affair of its vassal such as telling them to prioritize their economy, but it may lead to resentment (Evucks in particular). 4. With enough resentment and when the Liege seems weak, the Vassal may rebel to secure their independence. Other races and player may help them in the process. A suppressed rebellion will make them unable to rebel again for few years. 5. Since the Vassal is under protection, player's Hostile Act on the Vassal will piss off the Liege quite a lot. 6. Vassals will always automatically called to war when the Liege is at war. 7. Vassals will always join the faction that the Liege joined or created. After successful rebellion they may exit. 8. Vassals may not declare war on their own. 9. Vassals pay tax, raw resources, share all techs they learned (which make it ideal for non-techy races), and contribute large amount of their armada to their Liege. 10. Liege may bribe the leaders of their Vassals to make them happy and less rebellious. 11. With Liege-Vassal option available as war outcome, genocide would be considered unpopular and lead to negative opinion (like -50) by nobler races. However there'll be positive opinion: Burlusts admire genocider; Peltians become scared as hell. Thoraxian might not care less. 12. Burlusts don't make good vassal, and they'll consider it a terrible insult to serve Peltians. Outcome: Truce or White Peace 1. When the races become deadlocked in a war such as lack of ground troops by the sieger for years, they might make a deal to white peace. The race who were losing might have to pay war reparations or tribute. It's a huge feature which I think will really transform the experience of the game and add more hours to each playthrough. But it's heavy amount of content that I'd say would make a good $3-5 DLC material. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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The current genocidal bent of wars may or may not be realistic, depending on how extreme the race is, but it's a bit odd either way and I don't think it's the best thing for the game. Old-school empires would go out, beat up people, and make them give them their stuff. In TLF terms, I'd expect they'd be giving raw materials and industrial capacity as well as providing ground troops. The dominating power would use this stuff to make ships, and limit their new possession's fleet size to a point they felt confident they could kick them out of orbit if they had to. Part of the problem, I think, is that population grows too fast. If you go and kill everyone on a planet, it should be worthless for a long time (a hundred years or so) while your people emigrated there and natural population growth took over. Unless you're on one of those tiny worlds with less than a thousand square kilometers of land, you're not really winning here. Conquer the population and maintain control over them (what the ground troops are for), and you suddenly have a large, exploitable workforce with a government already set up that knows how to get them to do stuff for you. That's how empires all throughout history have done it: there's no real reason to take a factory over if you shoot all of the workers first. To get it running, you'll just have to take workers off of your own lines, and what have you gained? A trophy, that's it. |
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My 2 cents? Well, the races in this system were raised under the dictatoril heel of the Hydral, so there's their role model. Add to that they just genocided the most powerful race in the system, so they've got prescedence on their side. Plus significant phisiological (not just philosophical) differences and ideal environments, and their differences go way beyond repatriation capabilities. Additionally alot of the races just don't have the cultural structures to do this imo... 1) The Acutians aren't going to find any of the other races providing more profit per surface area than more of their own, so out with the obselete, make room for more profitable Acutians, right? 2) The Andor don't take over planets, so they already don't do the genocide thing. 3) The conditions under which the Boarines might be expected to care about surrender or vassals are the same condions under which they aren't likely to even be fighting, so pretty much if the Boarine go to war, it's to wipe out the opposition, not to subjigate them, I think. 4) The Burlusts. Well, They're Burlusts... If they've just conquered you, you're obviously too weak to be worth keeping around... 5) The Evucks would probably be capable of doing this actually. But their paranoia makes me think they'd prefer genocide - why risk it, if they've gotten us concerned enough to send ground troops, we probably don't want them around any more? 6) The Peltians. Considering their main conquest method is orbital bombing (with extreme prejudice) I doubt the victoms of their agresssion would get the message off in time to stop the last bombs from finishing off their world... Perhaps though. 7) The Thoraxians - everyone else is lunch, right? (Actually they can establish a protectorate empire I believe, which would be kind of as you described.) 8) The Skylaxians - I could see them doing this... Then again the subjugated race might PREFER genocide to figuring out the new system of government they have? All in all, though I like the idea as a general principle, I think there are plenty of reasons justifying not, so I can go either way with this. It'd be a good beta test at least, I'd have to see what it does to the simulation to really decide though, and I don't think it'd bring enough to be worth it, but that's just my 2 cents as it were. ;) |
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I am completely for this suggestion, especially if we ever get any more worlds added, or a second system. Why? Because these races are design to be unique which is a big plus of this game, so of course their conquest/warfare would benefit from being unique also. It would give rise to further events based on the subjugated race, and just who is holding their leash. Some ideas: The burlust may erupt into an internal war over the territory or planet, with different warlords wanting their own empire controlling the race (and perhaps getting it with your support). Some of the more diplomatic races, might be willing to negotiate better treatment of the conquered race, or giving them more autonomy (hard goal). The acutians race might be re-engineering the race into servants or workers, or happy to make use of the resource of the workforce, as long as they gain profit by it. So you'd have a profit meter for example, if the world is run well, the servant race gets some benefits, if they run the economy into the ground they get 'replaced'. Boarine might be loathe to have much control over the world at all, and only hold a token force in place, as they prefer to be isolatist where possible. However getting them to take any interest in the planet, or give it up, is next to impossible. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 23, 2014 2:21 am | Raide | New Issue | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:22 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:23 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:23 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:23 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:32 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:32 am | Raide | Description Updated | |
| Apr 23, 2014 2:48 am | Raide | Category | Suggestion => Gameplay Idea |
| Apr 23, 2014 11:08 am | GC13 | Note Added: 0036551 | |
| Apr 23, 2014 3:08 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Apr 23, 2014 3:08 pm | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => considering |
| May 5, 2014 3:32 am | Drak | Note Added: 0037347 | |
| Jan 23, 2015 8:02 am | Karrade | Note Added: 0039876 | |
| Jan 23, 2015 8:04 am | Karrade | Note Edited: 0039876 |
