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IDProjectCategoryDate SubmittedLast Update
0021999AI War 2GUIOct 29, 2019 1:12 pmApr 26, 2022 10:08 pm
ReporterTankorSmash Assigned ToChris_McElligottPark  
Status closedResolutionno change required 
Product Version1.005 Answering Your Top Requests 
Summary0021999: Scrolling in with the mouse wheel zooms in way too quickly
DescriptionI just loaded up the game for the first time, and found that zooming in and out is weird. I set the mouse wheel zoom speed to max( see attached 0000001) because zooming out was too slow, but zooming in goes instantly as close as it can, whereas zooming out takes multiple scrolls.

I'm not holding down any keys or anything.

The linked gif shows what I mean, scrolling up and down on my mouse, and it instantly zooms in. I later changed the zoom speed to about halfway and while it's not great, its at least usable that way.

The zooming in speeds seem inconsistent and based on how quickly I scroll the wheel, but no matter what zooming in is much much faster than zooming in. Page Up/Page Dn seem to behave normally (and independant of the mouse zoom speed).

I'm in Windows 10 after updating to the latest Windows Update in the last week. I'm playing at a fullscreen resolution of 2560x1440, but changing to a 1080p windowed mode doesn't affect anything. I have an in-game framerate of 143fps and my desktop refresh rate is 144hz.

settings view: https://i.imgur.com/3dX7rWk.png

gif of zooming in and out https://i.imgur.com/FHQd2MC.gif

edit: This only happens with Main Camera > Main Camera Type set to "Versatile Strategic", and does not happen at all when using "Top-Down Only"
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

BadgerBadger

Oct 29, 2019 1:30 pm

manager   ~0054121

isn't there a "speed of zoom" setting?

TankorSmash

Nov 5, 2019 11:33 pm

reporter   ~0054385

Yeah, I've got the mouse scroll zoom speed set to max where zooming in is instant, and zooming out takes several scrolls of the wheel. In the first image I attached you can see the setting is maxed out and the gif shows the behaviour I'm talking about.

TankorSmash

Nov 5, 2019 11:40 pm

reporter   ~0054386

Setting the "Main Camera Type" to "top down only" solves the issue, that is to say that having Main Camera > Main Camera Type set to "Versatile Strategic" causes the problem. Updating main ticket

TankorSmash

Apr 23, 2022 7:20 pm

reporter   ~0066329

This issue persists to the latest version :(

v5.002 "Mouse Zoom Speed" set to 0.01.

Windows 10 Pro 21H1 (19043.1645)

Windows Mouse Properties 'Vertical Scrolling' set to 3 lines (but happens when set to 6 lines and 30 lines too)

Mouse Hardware (same as initial report): Razer DeathAdder Elite

TankorSmash

Apr 23, 2022 7:22 pm

reporter   ~0066330

I've uploaded a video demo to YT, since it's too heavy for the bug reporter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq1Q3FUcZ4c

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 23, 2022 8:02 pm

administrator   ~0066334

This is a really challenging issue, because this has only happened with this one specific mouse for one person. There are definitely moments when the zoom jumps in too far for others as well, but it tends to be during "long frames," and mostly I filter those out. I'm using a Logitech MX Master 25 primarily as my mouse these days, although back when the original report was made I was using some sort of Corsair mouse. I've got a Razer Deathadder that I use on secondary computers with the game, but I don't think it's the Elite.

The only thing I can really think to do is provide you with a debug option that will let you collect some data, and we'll... see what we learn from that, I suppose. Sorry this has been such a longstanding issue!

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 23, 2022 8:18 pm

administrator   ~0066335

Okay, in the next version, set something like this (see image). When you zoom in, just move it a couple of ticks. You won't see anything visible happen.

However, check your log, and you'll see something like this:

4/23/2022 8:15:11 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.861 raw mouse: 1.000
4/23/2022 8:15:11 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.861 raw mouse: 1.000
4/23/2022 8:15:11 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.861 raw mouse: 1.000
4/23/2022 8:15:11 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.861 raw mouse: 1.000

When I zoom in and out a lot, the biggest variations I am able to get is this:

4/23/2022 8:16:36 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.861 raw mouse: 1.000
4/23/2022 8:16:36 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.00zoomRequest: -0.775 raw mouse: -1.000

Please do bear in mind that these are differing some because of the frame timings, so your framerate will have an impact on this. I may... add a few extra bits of debugging in here.
image.png (797,142 bytes)

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 23, 2022 8:28 pm

administrator   ~0066336

Okay, I added in the following to try to help out:

4/23/2022 8:22:49 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.00zoomRequest: -0.861 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007031486
4/23/2022 8:23:00 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.957 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006946772

What is also interesting is that this is NOT multiplied by the frame delta-time, which actually does make sense if you think about it. Mouse wheels are an analog device, unlike, say, a keyboard key. For keyboard zoom, we multiply by the deltaTime in order to say what speed we are moving in. For the mouse wheel, it's possible to move it one tick, or roll it fast, or do various other things. All of those things should result in the equivalent motion of the interface, regardless of what sort of frame-time is had.

I think that the tricky thing might be... maybe your mouse is giving inputs for more than one frame? When I move my mouse one tick forward, I get only a single input -- that last line. When I roll my mouse forward like I would do for maybe three lines of text, I get four entries above that (I only pasted one here).

I am theorizing that you might be getting... a whole bunch, for some reason. I don't know why this would be. I am using the unity axis system to read in these analog inputs, and it's possible that the answer lies in there somewhere. Specifically, there is a dead zone field that is meant to cancel out noise from gamepad analog sticks, for instance. I don't recall ever hearing about using that for a mouse wheel, but it's possible your wheel is giving some low-grade constant noise.

I don't really know, but if we wind up seeing an endless stream of inputs from your "raw mouse" input, then that would probably be why.

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 23, 2022 8:29 pm

administrator   ~0066337

Here's the scroll wheel settings being used in unity for AI War 2's mouse wheel:
image-2.png (31,850 bytes)   
image-2.png (31,850 bytes)   

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 23, 2022 8:31 pm

administrator   ~0066338

5.003 will be out shortly:

* Added a new "Debug Zoom If Above" mouse setting specifically to help one specific user figure out what is happening with their mouse. It will be interesting to see if it yields anything more broadly applicable as well.
** Thanks to Tankor Smash for his patience since... um... 2019 apparently. This is one of our older bug reports.

TankorSmash

Apr 23, 2022 9:25 pm

reporter   ~0066364

Thanks, I'll try again when 5.003 is out, and I'll set those input settings and check the debug logs and see what they contain.

I don't seem to have any weirdness in scrolling in the browser or other games, (nor in the Unity Editor for that matter), but maybe I'm so used to it that I don't notice it. I'll report back soon, thanks for looking into this!

TankorSmash

Apr 23, 2022 10:00 pm

reporter   ~0066368

Made an Autohotkey script to test out my mouse wheel, and it does appear that sometimes a scroll up event doesn't get caught immediately and if I scroll a second time, it'll scroll twice. So instead of a smooth 1 2 3 4 5 increment, it'll go 1 2 3 . 5 (where it never displayed 4, it just 'stored' it for the next scroll which then jumped twice). It doesn't happen when I scroll down, so it does seem like a mouse hardware issue on my end.

Attached is the script for reference (note: will swallow scroll wheel events while open)
aiwarmousetest.ahk (792 bytes)    
#SingleInstance Force

global myOutput := "No output"
global count := 0

SetupGui()
{
	Gui, New, , Mouse test
	Gui, Add, Button, gReloadScript w180, Reload
	Gui, Add, Text, vmyOutput w180, %myOutput%
	Gui, Show
	OnMessage(0x0200, "WM_MOUSEMOVE")
}

ReloadScript()
{
	Reload
}


SetupGui()
Loop
{
	GuiControl, , myOutput, %myOutput%
	sleep 200
}


IncrementCount()
{
	count++
	myOutput = %count%
	GuiControl,, myOutput, %myOutput%
}

DecrementCount()
{
	count--
	myOutput = %count%
	GuiControl,, myOutput, %myOutput%
}


OnMessage(0x404, "AHK_NOTIFYICON")
AHK_NOTIFYICON(wParam, lParam, uMsg, hWnd)
{
	if (lParam = 0x200) ;WM_MOUSEMOVE := 0x200
		return

	SetupGui()
	return
}



WheelUp::IncrementCount()
WheelDown::DecrementCount()
aiwarmousetest.ahk (792 bytes)   

ptarth

Apr 24, 2022 12:53 am

reporter   ~0066378

I also infrequently experience this. It seems to happen more when I'm switching back to the AI war window. I have a Razor DeathAdder Elite. I've never been able to consistently replicate it.

TankorSmash

Apr 24, 2022 9:54 pm

reporter   ~0066415

Last edited: Apr 24, 2022 10:02 pm

 I'm on 5.004 now and have set the debug scroll setting to 300, but I'm not sure what I need to do to get the log file. Is it different than the `AppData\LocalLow\Arcen Games, LLC\AIWar2\Player.log`? If not, is there a debug flag I can set to dump those lines in the log? I've got basically all other settings set to default, so I'm probably missing something!

TankorSmash

Apr 24, 2022 10:02 pm

reporter   ~0066416

I should mention that despite using the attached settings, scrolling my mouse wheel even just a little (ie one notch worth of spin) still zooms in and out, whereas I didn't expect it to do anything if I read your comment right!
image-3.png (1,039,441 bytes)

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 24, 2022 11:14 pm

administrator   ~0066417

The log is in playerdata in the game install folder. It’s ArcenDebugLog.txt.

The function of the zoom is unchanged, it will just log what happens.

TankorSmash

Apr 24, 2022 11:41 pm

reporter   ~0066419

`steamapps\common\AI War 2\PlayerData\ArcenDebugLog.txt` for me, thanks!

"When you zoom in, just move it a couple of ticks. You won't see anything visible happen." You must have meant that I wouldn't have seen the change you made in 5.003, but I thought you meant it'd disable scrolling or something

Below is three separate single scrolls. The first one when I booted up a fresh save, then the next two are shortly after I returned to menu and loaded in a new save.

4/24/2022 11:27:56 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006947864

4/24/2022 11:28:05 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945664

4/24/2022 11:28:12 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007032954

Below is a fairly brisk set of scrolling the mouse up and down, without reloading the save file:

4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945009
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945197
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006964358
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945978
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006958508
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006944739
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006944338
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006962015
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.00695014
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006952364
4/24/2022 11:33:36 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.897 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006946143
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.897 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006984167
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945255
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945156
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006965805
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006977212
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006959163
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006987489
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006989758
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006960445
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006953407
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006979563
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006991083
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006976423
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006960583
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006950994
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.807 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006946948
4/24/2022 11:33:37 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.17zoomRequest: -0.897 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006974611

Below is after I changed "Mouse Zoom Speed" from ~0.002 to 0.01 and scrolled up and down a little bit:

4/24/2022 11:35:13 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 4.305 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006962128
4/24/2022 11:35:14 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 3.874 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007002038
4/24/2022 11:35:15 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -3.138 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006944747
4/24/2022 11:35:15 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -3.487 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006963302
4/24/2022 11:35:15 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -3.874 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006947693
4/24/2022 11:35:15 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -3.874 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006944942
4/24/2022 11:35:15 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -4.305 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.00712008
4/24/2022 11:35:16 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 4.305 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006987951
4/24/2022 11:35:17 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 3.874 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007023186
4/24/2022 11:35:17 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 3.487 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006962043
4/24/2022 11:35:17 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 20.00zoomRequest: 3.138 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006948678
4/24/2022 11:35:18 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: -20.00zoomRequest: -3.138 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.01 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007151525

I'd be happy to record a short video, IRL or OBS, if that'd help

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 25, 2022 9:12 am

administrator   ~0066428

Mine:

4/23/2022 8:22:49 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: -4.00zoomRequest: -0.861 raw mouse: -1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.007031486
4/23/2022 8:23:00 PM 5.002 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.00zoomRequest: 0.957 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006946772

Yours:

4/24/2022 11:27:56 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.897 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006947864
4/24/2022 11:28:05 PM 5.004 SINGLEP originalZoom: 4.17zoomRequest: 0.807 raw mouse: 1.000mouse zoom speed: 0.002083198 zoomSpeed: 0.12 minZoom: 5 effectiveDTimeZoom: 0.006945664

With these, were they going all the way in for you, or just a tick or two? The game was registering in a way that it should just be a tick or two.

"Below is after I changed "Mouse Zoom Speed" from ~0.002 to 0.01 and scrolled up and down a little bit:"

Wait, this is in the game settings, right? The default is 0.002, and if you increase that at all it will be insanely fast. This is working as intended. If you want it to zoom less intensely, you should move this lower, not higher. If you have it set to something like 0.01, I'd expect you to see the behavior you're getting, and that's not a bug.

TankorSmash

Apr 25, 2022 9:16 am

reporter   ~0066429

Last edited: Apr 25, 2022 9:16 am

 >Wait, this is in the game settings, right? The default is 0.002, and if you increase that at all it will be insanely fast. This is working as intended. If you want it to zoom less intensely, you should move this lower, not higher. If you have it set to something like 0.01, I'd expect you to see the behavior you're getting, and that's not a bug.

It's set real high there so that it exaggerates the effect. In the camera video, you can see scrolling up means 1 scroll up to zoom to max zoom, while it takes 2 or 3 scrolls down to return to that zoomed-out zoom at Mouse Zoom Speed 0.01. I'd expect it to be consistent with the amount independent of the direction.

If I use the ~0.002 it'd take say 7 scrolls to zoom in and 10 to zoom out. I'd have to go back and count though.

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 25, 2022 9:42 am

administrator   ~0066430

Ah, man, this isn't even a bug then. It's not possible to make these consistent in each direction given the style of math I'm using, and generally it's not desirable, either. The ability to zoom in precisely is pretty important, and it slows as you go.

I would have to recode the entire mouse zoom in order to get it to work the way you'd want, and it would have many other negative effects.

The reason this doesn't line up is because the zoom is exponential. A mild exponent, but still. You're comparing this with applications with linear zoom. For instance, if you zoom out of a picture on a camera by 1 meter, you can zoom back in one meter.

But we're talking about something that zooms out more to like 4000 meters. Generally speaking, players need to be able to zoom out dynamically from a few meters if they want, or a hundred or two meters quickly, or to the equivalent of a kilometer out.

The math for this is not quite the same as the math for zooming back in, because there again sometimes you at 4000 meters out, other times 5000, and now you want to zoom in by "10%," whatever that happens to mean, because that's what feels natural. Things just aren't quite framed the way you want, let's see it in slightly more detail.

Then as you get even further in, the math changes again at several intervals.

It's not my favorite thing ever, but I spent months going back and forth with players on mouse feel, trying different things, and with the extreme zoom requirements here. I'm not sure there are other games with this particular challenge, but Supreme Commander is closest. AI War 1 doesn't have nearly the distance requirements, because all of its graphics are handled in a foreshortened way. AI War 2 is using actual physical distance.

If you'd like a secondary modifier for zooming in the mouse compared to zooming out, so you can tune it to taste, I could add that. I'm not sure that it will ever be something you could make exactly consistent, but it would allow you to adjust how it is handling that at least.

TankorSmash

Apr 25, 2022 9:53 am

reporter   ~0066431

Ah that's a shame, I can imagine how tough it was to figure out some math that made it feel good to as many people as possible.

>If you'd like a secondary modifier for zooming in the mouse compared to zooming out, so you can tune it to taste, I could add that. I'm not sure that it will ever be something you could make exactly consistent, but it would allow you to adjust how it is handling that at least.

Thanks for offering but I'll deal with the lopsided nature of the zoom, and try to understand that it's for the best. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through the thought process. Have a good week!

Chris_McElligottPark

Apr 26, 2022 10:08 pm

administrator   ~0066487

Okay, understood. Thanks!

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
Oct 29, 2019 1:12 pm TankorSmash New Issue
Oct 29, 2019 1:13 pm TankorSmash Description Updated
Oct 29, 2019 1:18 pm TankorSmash Product Version 1.002 ARSes, Instigators, and Tech Vaults, Oh My => 1.003 Sortable Objectives
Oct 29, 2019 1:18 pm TankorSmash Description Updated
Oct 29, 2019 1:30 pm BadgerBadger Note Added: 0054121
Nov 5, 2019 11:33 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0054385
Nov 5, 2019 11:40 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0054386
Nov 5, 2019 11:41 pm TankorSmash Product Version 1.003 Sortable Objectives => 1.005 Answering Your Top Requests
Nov 5, 2019 11:41 pm TankorSmash Description Updated
Apr 23, 2022 7:20 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066329
Apr 23, 2022 7:22 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066330
Apr 23, 2022 8:02 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066334
Apr 23, 2022 8:02 pm Chris_McElligottPark Assigned To => Chris_McElligottPark
Apr 23, 2022 8:02 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status new => assigned
Apr 23, 2022 8:18 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066335
Apr 23, 2022 8:18 pm Chris_McElligottPark File Added: image.png
Apr 23, 2022 8:28 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066336
Apr 23, 2022 8:29 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066337
Apr 23, 2022 8:29 pm Chris_McElligottPark File Added: image-2.png
Apr 23, 2022 8:31 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status assigned => feedback
Apr 23, 2022 8:31 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066338
Apr 23, 2022 9:25 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066364
Apr 23, 2022 9:25 pm TankorSmash Status feedback => assigned
Apr 23, 2022 10:00 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066368
Apr 23, 2022 10:00 pm TankorSmash File Added: aiwarmousetest.ahk
Apr 24, 2022 12:53 am ptarth Note Added: 0066378
Apr 24, 2022 9:54 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066415
Apr 24, 2022 9:56 pm TankorSmash Note Edited: 0066415
Apr 24, 2022 10:02 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066416
Apr 24, 2022 10:02 pm TankorSmash File Added: image-3.png
Apr 24, 2022 10:02 pm TankorSmash Note Edited: 0066415
Apr 24, 2022 11:14 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066417
Apr 24, 2022 11:41 pm TankorSmash Note Added: 0066419
Apr 25, 2022 9:12 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066428
Apr 25, 2022 9:16 am TankorSmash Note Added: 0066429
Apr 25, 2022 9:16 am TankorSmash Note Edited: 0066429
Apr 25, 2022 9:42 am Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066430
Apr 25, 2022 9:53 am TankorSmash Note Added: 0066431
Apr 26, 2022 10:08 pm Chris_McElligottPark Status assigned => closed
Apr 26, 2022 10:08 pm Chris_McElligottPark Resolution open => no change required
Apr 26, 2022 10:08 pm Chris_McElligottPark Note Added: 0066487