View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0022050 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Nov 2, 2019 3:04 am | Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | |
| Reporter | NB_FlankStrike | Assigned To | RocketAssistedPuffin | ||
| Status | closed | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 1.003 Sortable Objectives | ||||
| Summary | 0022050: 10-10-10 default beaten | ||||
| Description | I reloaded a couple times on tech vaults as they have a habit to roll to what I already have maxed (maybe don't let a reroll be what you have maxed). Almost no reloads (any?) up to mid game. Late game probably 10-15 reloads particularly around the pushback on my rerolling of ARS and spire extraction... and also that I was getting fatigued and wanted to end earlier than I could have. If I had taken my time I'd have escalated to mk 2 and done the coprocessors and channeled time hack (forgot name) to get 0000061:0000008 more planets and thus 16k research and perhaps some weaker fleets with it. I also chose a favorable spawn location that'd have at least 3 flanks early game condensing eventually down to 1 (I consider this easing the game probably 20-30%... maybe more) So: a couple thoughts. 1: AIP Floor This is truly ridiculous. My entire late-early to late-mid game was trivial. Kept sub 100 AIP the whole game up to the assassination where they nabbed one of my major data centers as I moved in. AIP truly needs a much sharper floor increase or the player can severely tweak the difficulty by refusing to escalate the opposition until they absolutely have to. 2: Hunter Fragmentation When you cut off an arm of the galaxy, the cut off section no longer has hunter threat. This means if you've partitioned off even a decently wide area then you only have to worry about extra-galactic waves sent by the AI. As a result, my early game was not 3 flanks but actually basically 1. I'd suggest the AI either build up local hunter fleets over time in separated chambers, or be able to teleport the hunter fleet via the warp gate system so they can do rear flank hits. 3: Vital Targets The AI does not prioritize critical targets, mainly the major data center, nearly as much as it should. I did a pretty vanilla max military outpost on both with a 0000032:0000015-20 strength fleet permanently stationed and I never until the end had a significant hunter fleet attack... even when the threat meter was 400. 4: Breakthroughs AI should have some gate popping options (when a player places their shield on the connecting wormhole to prevent travel) in its repertoire. Breakthroughs were terrifying in my previous playthrough but were easily managed here. 5: Ease of Travel It was trivial to go take out instigator bases, and I never took 1 AIP from them the whole game. The AI should make more use of sabots and gating directly on the wormhole like players do to constrict easy motion through hostile territory. Ships let out of the players transports should have a SIGNIFICANT cooldown before they can fire. Most of my early to mid game was loading a transport, going into the face of a big pocket, letting them out, and immediately loading back in. 6: Devourer Golem: This'd suck to code, but enemies should be smart enough to route around the golem. I had a seriously dicey situation at one point with 600 threat, and while I think I could have held it off, a devourer went the path they were taking and wiped nearly all of them. I understand the golem should be strong, but the AI just throws itself into the slaughter. Maybe a limited number of targets? I'm tired I'll probably think of more tomorrow | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Re: point 3: if you have any saves where there's a ton of threat that's not being used effectively by the AI I'd be interested in seeing them. |
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Regarding points 1 & 2, this is heavily map-dependent. If you choose a favorable map and starting spot, it's much easier to keep AIP low and establish safe sectors. A punishing AI floor could make more open maps even more difficult to play, as well as rendering certain legitimate strategies even more difficult to pull off. It's important not to assume that more than a fraction of players will necessarily play like you. And regarding teleporting hunter fleets, this seems like it should be covered by exogalactic wormholes. Though it is an interesting idea for the hunter fleet to gain teleportation if they perhaps built or 'captured' a certain structure which granted them this capability. Perhaps such structures would only show up by default in difficulties 9 & 10. You make good points for 4 & 5. Overall, rather than adjusting mechanics across the board based on difficulty 10, maybe it would be better to set different defaults for higher difficulties. That way you don't risk warping the base experience of the game. |
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did my zip of saves not go through? |
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Saves |
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Is it blocking 10+meg file? |
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I have 50 saves for you (knew this would be a win so got lots of data) But here's a high threat situation they didn't go for my major data center in the west |
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1-25 |
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26+ |
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Re: Badger threat usage Throughout the game though I'd go up to 100 to 150 threat and they just almost never went for major data centers with a paltry fleet defending Re: Apthorpe What are exo galactic wormholes? If the player makes AI segments (I think you could do it even if it was chopping the galaxy in half) They are paying no price for backline safety. If the AI Hunter fleet can transit through gates in specific circumstances it would prompt the player to have to make a 5 AIP sacrifice by destroying every backline gate. Alternatively, if it is a special structure like you mention, I think it would have to take a STAUNCH assault by the player to take it down (high hp and defensive fleet) Point 5.1: Seriously, instigators and data centers NEED to have even at least 3X the hp AND a defensive contingent that pushes back. Taking down a data center requiring a stiff attack from the player would be so much more fun and also costly to pull off. It'd require more of your fleets backbone in the attack and you'd be opening up to hunter counters. Image below: AIP is ridiculous as it stands. It's silly to be able to win a level 10 scenario with Mark 1 AIP. I didn't use coprocessors or superterminals, either. That means if I went to Mk 2 I could have had 16 (? am I doing that right math wise?) more bases?? |
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Oh and sorry last addendum... If you can access damage numbers (not kills, damage)... I'd place a bet that auto bomb was the serious hero of this playthrough |
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Based on difficulty, scaling defense of things like instigators and data centers makes sense to me. By exogalactic wormholes, I mean the sort which the AI can temporarily open at your systems. Did I get their name wrong? As for backline safety, I think we just disagree on whether or not this should be made universally more costly. It seems to me that the map you envision is similar to a globe, in that each side connects to its opposite side. |
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When I load 39.save, I see your forces in the middle of butchering almost all the AI threat. If I retreat your forces from the planet the threat immediately goes for that major data center. I'm going to poke through your other save games and see if I find anything I can work with. |
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"As for backline safety, I think we just disagree on whether or not this should be made universally more costly. It seems to me that the map you envision is similar to a globe, in that each side connects to its opposite side." Not really, just that the Hunter fleet can make use of warp gate to warp gate movement in some circumstances, or as was suggested a structure spawning (and warned about) that links to points so they can do isolated segment (backline) attacks. That's be from their planet to their planet I mean, not into one of your owned planets |
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Just a question I feel is important that hasn't been looked at... can you get total damage by the auto bombs? Kills would be interesting but not as useful. I think it needs to be examined how they performed because I think they were of unbelievably high power relatively. |
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I wouldn't be all that surprised. They had numerous buffs when it turns out it was a bug breaking their movement (so they barely ever...well, hit anything). Badger did fix a couple of bugs with splash damage, so think best to see how that plays out before taking the hammer to them. |
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Long time since report was made, numerous changes. Still possible, please open a new one. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Nov 2, 2019 3:04 am | NB_FlankStrike | New Issue | |
| Nov 2, 2019 2:45 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054277 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 3:54 pm | Apthorpe | Note Added: 0054278 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 4:35 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054279 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:05 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054280 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:05 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054281 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:07 pm | NB_FlankStrike | File Added: 39 repel.save | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:07 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054282 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:08 pm | NB_FlankStrike | File Added: 1-25.zip | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:08 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054283 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:10 pm | NB_FlankStrike | File Added: 26plus.zip | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:10 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054284 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:18 pm | NB_FlankStrike | File Added: hunt.png | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:18 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054285 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:22 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054288 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:31 pm | Apthorpe | Note Added: 0054289 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 5:46 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0054290 | |
| Nov 2, 2019 6:17 pm | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054293 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 3:54 am | NB_FlankStrike | Note Added: 0054304 | |
| Nov 3, 2019 7:46 am | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0054305 | |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Assigned To | => RocketAssistedPuffin |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Status | new => closed |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Jan 8, 2020 6:27 pm | RocketAssistedPuffin | Note Added: 0055450 |
