0002260: Decloaker-Spy (needs better name) - DEV Arcen

ID	Project	Category		Date Submitted	Last Update

0002260	AI War 1 / Classic	Suggestion - New Unit Ideas - Turrets and Defenses		Jan 5, 2011 10:19 pm	Jan 6, 2011 7:29 am

Reporter	TechSY730	Assigned To	Chris_McElligottPark
Status	considering	Resolution	open

Summary	0002260: Decloaker-Spy (needs better name)
Description	EDIT: If you do not feel like reading a page long suggestion, I have a summary of this post in the comments area. I propose a new unit, the Decloaker-Spy. (Yes, this name sucks, can anyone suggest a better one?) This unit is being suggested to deal with the "problem" (read, annoyance) of "parked" cloaked AI ships on player planets. This unit will be like the counter spy. It will target cloaked ships one at a time, but at a huge range. However, instead of insta-killing them, it decloaks them (for the same amount of time as normal decloaking). Of course, it would cost MUCH less than a counter spy, have a much greater recharge time, and a moderate knowledge unlock cost. Maybe with a ship cap of 3-5 or something, so you can reasonably get rid of "waiting" cloaked stuff in border worlds and still build some to stop those occasional cloaked ships that sneak in and "park" in your home world or core worlds. Up to you guys whether scouts and scout-starships should be immune, but it definitely should not target those immune to tachyon beams. Also, it is up to you whether the base AI gets some of these or not. If they do though, it should be rather rare, though slightly more common than counter-spies. The AI that uses many counter-spies should also get these though even if the base AI doesn't, with an increased rate like it gets with counter-spies. Now to address some possible criticisms: Does the decloaker-spy completely null the strategy of the AI "parking" cloaked units? No, as you have very small number of decloaker-spies you can build, and thus you have to choose which planets get them wisely. Also, although they would be cheaper than a counter-spy, though they would still be pretty expensive and lengthy to build so that players don't freely "juggle" them between planets. This way, if the AI manages to sneak into a planet that does not have one, it will still be a hassle to "move" one there. Plus the slow refire rate means that if there are many cloaked ships, it will take some time reveal all of them. Of course, the cloaked ships would realize they are in danger if there is one or even one being built, and thus be more likely to risk an attack or a retreat, so you may get attacked anyways. Does this make other decloaking methods significantly less useful? No, because of the slow firing rate, the low cap, and the "only one at a time" thing. Conventional decloakers can still reveal everything in their range all at once, almost instantly too. Thus, they are much better at their job for the area they cover. Admittedly, planets with military Mk. III command stations would not need these, but military Mk. III command stations would be much harder to get (knowledge wise) than the cost need to unlock these. Also, IIRC, also suffer from a ship cap (only Mk. I command stations don't have a cap). Tachyon warheads will still be a quicker (albeit dirtier) way to decloak ships, if you can handle the whopping 1 AIP it adds. ;) If the AI does get them, and they would be able to target scouts, does that make scouting too hard? Possibly, but like counter-spies, they would be quite (but maybe not quite as) rare. The exception would be that AI type that gets counter-spies, which would also get many of these. But then again, it is already hard to scout against one of these, so no major additional hassle is introduced. Also, unlike counter-spies, decloaker-spies will obey tachyon-beam immunity, so they would be unable to decloak Mk. IV scouts and Mk. IV scout starships. This is a cleaned up version of my post at http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,7964.msg68612.html#msg68612 The OP of that thread also has a new unit idea to deal with "parked" cloaked units; so if you like that one better, go to that thread and encourage him to make a report.
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TechSY730 Jan 5, 2011 10:20 pm reporter ~0007569 Last edited: Jan 5, 2011 11:24 pm	This report was a lot longer than I expected it would be. :P If someone wants a summary of that wall of text I just made, please ask. EDIT: Well, okay, I'll make a summary * Take a counter-spy * Reduce its cost, but still keep it pretty expensive for a support ship (does the tens of thousands sound like a reasonable magnitude?) * Reduce its firing rate * Make its ammo decloak its target, not instant kill it * Let it keep its near entire planet range * Give it a lowish ship cap * Make it a unlock-able with knowledge like "normal" ships And then you have the decloaker-spy I hope that is a little easier to understand.

Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
Jan 5, 2011 10:19 pm	TechSY730	New Issue
Jan 5, 2011 10:20 pm	TechSY730	Note Added: 0007569
Jan 5, 2011 10:29 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Assigned To	=> Chris_McElligottPark
Jan 5, 2011 10:29 pm	Chris_McElligottPark	Status	new => considering
Jan 5, 2011 10:46 pm	Fleet	Relationship added	related to 0002201
Jan 5, 2011 11:23 pm	TechSY730	Note Edited: 0007569
Jan 5, 2011 11:24 pm	TechSY730	Note Edited: 0007569
Jan 6, 2011 7:29 am	TechSY730	Description Updated