View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0023536 | AI War 2 | Gameplay Issue | Aug 13, 2020 4:23 pm | Aug 14, 2020 8:48 am | |
| Reporter | GreatYng | Assigned To | BadgerBadger | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 2.117 Ion Cannons And Melee Units | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 2.120 Improved Lobby Map Experience | ||||
| Summary | 0023536: Units in a Speed Group should lose their speed advantage on hostile planets | ||||
| Description | It's fine on planets allied or neutral to the Fireteam, but I would appreciate it if they were reduced to their normal speed on hostile planets. For example, in the attached save several Dire Guardians, a Golem, and a Hunter-Killer smash their way through my defences a few seconds after loading the save; this is to be expected given the defences that are present, and they would be able to do this without the speed bonus. The problem is that they are trying to reach my Home Planet and keep their 1800 speed (as opposed to their normal speed of 500-ish) through two of my planets all the way to my Home Planet. Combined with the fact that mobile shield generators can push stationary ones (excluding the Spire Great-Shield Emitter) they nearly instantly reach my Home Planet. It would be nice if they obeyed the normal speed limits when they get into combat, or at least when they arrive on a planet with non-trivial hostile forces present, or a planet with an intact Command Center. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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It sounds like you are describing an Exogalactic Strikeforce. A Fireteams' attack speed is "Average of all ships attacking + 10%" or something along those lines. The story of the Exogalactic Strikeforce speed boost is as follows. AIWC had an override speed for its exos. AIW2 was intended to have that, but there was a bug that was causing Exos to not have an override speed. This was reported as a "Exos are way too easy" bug. Having spent time testing this, I think if an Exo lost their override then it would make defending against them much much much easier. The end result would be AI ships slowly trickling in, fastest (and weakest) ships first. Given that "Exos are too easy" was just reported as a bug, I don't think changing them to make them easier again is a good idea. Exos are intended to be really really hard. |
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I looked at the attached save, Badger, since the whole speedgroups thing has been bothering me for while as well, even after the whole "Dark spire at 3000+ speed letting them zoom past a planet that could have slaughtered them" thing got toned down. The average of the speeds of all the ships in there is 0000141:0000521. If you just average the ship types, it's 0000391:0000658. While I didn't get see any reasonable way to get the mark levels of all the ships to do a strength-weighted average properly, my feeling looking at them is it's going to be <550. The speedgroup speed is 1800. Only 2 ship types, totalling 37 normal guardians and a tiny fraction of the strength, have even half that speed. I totally agree they should be grouped, but over triple their average speed, matching the fastest unit in the whole group, seems VERY off, and there's a good reason that classic changed the way it calculated exo speeds to stop things like that happening, so I can't help but think that something is wrong there somewhere. If exos are too easy, that's a whole other story and means they need more strength, not to cheat their speed like a bunch of bad loosers. There's too much crazy speed in the game already with the way player ships zoom around on their own planets and make it almost impossible to micro their ranges properly. |
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Those numbers above should be 520 and 660 , respectively. |
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I was under the impression that classic's Exos just went Really Fast |
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Okay, Exo speeds now work like this. The base exo speed is "Average speed of all units + 20%. If this number is < 800 (aka Normal3) then it's set to 800. If this number is > 1800 (aka AboverAverage6) then it is 1800. Practically, most exos now travel at 800. For reference, 800 is the speed of a Parasite. This should make Exos feel a bit less like they are cheating in terms of speed. |
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I had to track down the old patch notes to check, since it's been a very long time since I played classic - in classic, as far as I can see, and it vaguely matches my memory, Exos were speedmatched to just the flagship. Which meant that weaker exos could indeed be very fast, especially when flagged by raid starships (I had a fond flashback when I saw that bit in the patch notes). But what this means is that the overall speed of the group would be what had been balanced as appropriate for one of it's largest units, not it's smallest. So under classic rules, this exo would have matched one of the golems or the H/K, and been speed 700 at most. (There was also counterplay in terms of focus-firing the flagship if the flagship was a fragile speedster, but that I'm not so sure is desirable as it tended to cause exactly the sort of breakup of the units that we want to avoid.) |
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Do you have objections to my changes? |
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Ah, I started writing before your last note, that looks really good to me. :) |
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A fantastic change, thank you. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 13, 2020 4:23 pm | GreatYng | New Issue | |
| Aug 13, 2020 4:23 pm | GreatYng | File Added: Superspeed.save | |
| Aug 13, 2020 4:39 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0058068 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 6:39 pm | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0058075 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 6:40 pm | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0058076 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 7:24 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0058077 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm | BadgerBadger | Assigned To | => BadgerBadger |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm | BadgerBadger | Status | new => resolved |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm | BadgerBadger | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm | BadgerBadger | Fixed in Version | => 2.120 Improved Lobby Map Experience |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:12 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0058078 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:24 pm | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0058079 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:26 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0058080 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 8:26 pm | Lord Of Nothing | Note Added: 0058081 | |
| Aug 14, 2020 8:48 am | GreatYng | Note Added: 0058084 |
