View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0024998 | AI War 2 | Gameplay Idea | May 19, 2021 8:58 pm | May 20, 2021 1:16 am | |
| Reporter | Zweihand | Assigned To | |||
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 3.000 Begin The Onslaught | ||||
| Summary | 0024998: Increasing cannot shoot after unloading timer. | ||||
| Description | Currently, players are finding ways to cheese dire guardposts by unloading raid frigates right on top of direguard posts due to not aggroing the entire Praetorian fleet. I recommend changing the cannot shoot after unloading timer from 6 seconds to 18 seconds | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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To change this, update firing_delay_for_transported_ships="6" to firing_delay_for_transported_ships="18" everywhere. Is there a consensus that this is necessary? |
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Unsure, discussing it on discord atm. The problem is that players are finding the AI fleet are ignoring transports when loaded. And using that time to get close to the guardpost, sniping it, loading back in, and then going to the next one. I think either delaying it so its not possible to do that easily, or make it so fleets target transports actively again would be the solutions. |
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By ignore, it seems that the warden/hunter/praetorian fleets aren't all instantly aggroed into pursuing it on a planet when a transport is loaded. |
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Another method would be to weaken all unarmed transports to the point where they can be sniped if they tried to unload on top of a direguard post with a praetorian fleet around. |
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this sparked off a single instance where my transport was not being actively shot at unless in range on a homeworld planet, apparently due to anti-deepstrike code. See video: https://streamable.com/ancury I don't see this as being necessary or relevant as it hardly addresses the issue at hand (as whichever ship used for this can simply be accompanied by sufficient forcefields to survive the drop long enough to get a shot off - no 18 seconds is not enough, neither would be 30 seconds). Instead, this causes all transport-related tactics whether the AI is ignoring the transport at the moment or not to become less effective (Splash transport dropping has been used for a long time as one of the more common examples, same with shuttling transports to come to the aid of defenses). Considering scenarios where a transport containing serious threats is ignored only occurs in very specific circumstances (which may already be caused by bugs, I couldn't reproduce this video after it occured), it doesn't make any sense to me to nerf transport unloading across the board for such a specific exception. Nerfing transports as a whole would also make them far less useful in plenty of other situations. If this even needs to be addressed, I feel it should be with a specific change to the AI logic (possibly only on diff 7+ or higher) to make sure the praetorian guard does not ignore enough strength that would otherwise trip the AI mark up response on the homeworld/bastion worlds. This could even be another difficulty 10 only anti-cheese. Note that in my video, I am not using raid frigates, and that raid frigates can accomplish this already without using a transport by simply having other forces bait the AI while outmaneuvering them - this only seemed like an issue to me because it allowed slow heavy hitters such as assault frigates to more easily reach key objectives when heavily outnumbered. |
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My bad, I thought you were using raid frigates. I still believe the core issue is either applicable to the entire game as a whole where a player can snipe all guard posts and structures with this trick, or the AI behaviour will have to be changed. The very serious threat in this case, could be 10 strength and lower, considering that that's the minimum fleet strength to trigger a mark up. Diff 10 to me should demonstrate issues exploit as a whole that causes issues to the base game, as being overpowered or etc. The anti-deepstrike code is actually a pro deepstrike code to not aggro every unit on the planet into attacking the transport. If this is an issue on diff 10, then this is also an issue on all lower difficulties because it's an exploit. What I take from this is that it's too easy for the player to move transports into stacks of fleets and survive, or the unload timer is too short and allows players to take structures with little to no risk. However, as sniping is part of the core game, I question if it even needs to be changed. |
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Seems we had a misunderstanding on discord, seems to be not as severe of an issue than was originally understood, we can close this or look at this another time |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| May 19, 2021 8:58 pm | Zweihand | New Issue | |
| May 19, 2021 9:02 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0061711 | |
| May 19, 2021 9:31 pm | Zweihand | Note Added: 0061713 | |
| May 19, 2021 9:32 pm | Zweihand | Note Added: 0061714 | |
| May 19, 2021 9:36 pm | Zweihand | Note Added: 0061715 | |
| May 19, 2021 10:00 pm | Metrekec | Note Added: 0061716 | |
| May 19, 2021 11:35 pm | Zweihand | Note Added: 0061717 | |
| May 20, 2021 1:16 am | Zweihand | Note Added: 0061719 |
