View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0002704 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Jan 29, 2011 9:43 pm | Jul 9, 2013 2:28 am | |
| Reporter | Ozymandiaz | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 5.000 | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 7.006 | ||||
| Summary | 0002704: OMD | ||||
| Description | The OMD, needing to stand outside a force field so it can apply it damage seem to go down too fast. I had an early wave with 40 sentinel frigs 2 volley the units (captured). I think perhaps Ion Cannons need a bit more ehp as well. Also Mk IV factories, so its at least as good as constructors. :) | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | New | ||||
| duplicate of | 0011916 | resolved | keith.lamothe | Please buff the Orbital Mass Driver |
| has duplicate | 0011744 | resolved | keith.lamothe | Orbital mass drivers need a buff |
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Took me a few reads to finally get what you were saying. Please proof read your post next time. :\ Basically, you are saying that the orbital mass driver does not have enough HP to pose much of a threat. Under a forcefield, it can actually start living long enough to actually do good long-term damage, but if it is under a human forcefield, the damage gets cut by a whole bunch. (Its still is a lot of damage, but not enough to one-shot many of the things it could before) Similar issue with ion-cannons, except for the forcefield damage reduction thing. (25% of infinite damage is infinite after all.) |
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yes ;) |
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If other folks agree the OMD and/or ion cannons (or whatever of that kind of thing) need an hp buff, that can certainly be done. Bear in mind you can station Riot Control Starships with shields nearby to provide a bit extra coverage, and those shields don't have the 75% attack reduction of normal ff gens. Shield Bearers or Spirecraft Shieldbearers can do the same, but are obviously not available in all games. |
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How about giving it radar dampening so snipers can't take it down from across the system? |
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Imo the OMD could get a bit of a boost in HP, but not ION-cannons. IONs are potent enough as they are, and with a boost in HP become really letal in the hands of the AI .. and even if protected often fairly pointless in the hands of the human. Mk4-fabs/Fabricators could use a boost in HP, seeing that the AI loves to target them. Nowhere near a necessary tweak but would be helpfull keeping them alive. |
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I can agree on boosting OMD HP, and not Ion. I usually place an FF over the Ions I really need (like on the current MK Factory Planet I captured, that conveniently had Mk II and MK III Ion cannons placed next to each other ^^) The radar dampening idea is also a good one imo. Of course, Shield bearers and other shield ships work, but need knowledge, or luck to get. But in the hands of the AI, the OMDs are also pretty easy to kill of as is, making them less of a threat then the used to be. Is a HP boost + a radar damp effect overkill? |
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Okay, after reviewing its stats some, I think a buff to its attack power it in order. Right now, it has an attack of 1,800,000 with a reload time of 10 seconds. That used to be pretty powerful, but by starship tier (and up) standards, that is not all that threatening. That means 2 shots (in 20 seconds) to kill a human raid starship Mk. I or a light starship. Okay, maybe, but it take 4 shots (40 seconds) to kill a flag ship (and if a single flag ship was targeting it, the OMD would die first) and 9 shots (90 seconds!) to kill a Zenith starship (naturally, the a single Zenith starship could have its way with it long before then). For another starship line, it takes 3 shots to kill a bomber starship Mk. I (and again, the a bomber starship would kill it first, though admittedly with really low health by the end). So for all but the very weakest starships, the OMD doesn't pose that much of a threat. In the amount of time it takes to do the damage it can inflict (thanks to its low fire rate), a decent number of fleet ships can out DPS it by a long shot, rendering it near useless in a fight. IMO, a good balancing point would be to have have a OMD (outside of a ff) be able to 2 or 3 shot a Zenith starship. That should make it feared by starships again. Also, it should get a moderate boost to HP, so it can live long enough to get more than 1 or 2 shots off. Thankfully, the OMD in its current form is really good against guardians, as they typically don't have the HP or firepower of starship until they get to their higher Mk. levels. Whew, thank you reference tab. :D |
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I would not raise ion cannon HP because as others have mentioned, putting it under a FF does not make it less effective. Would there be a way to make it immune to the FF damage reduction? |
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Giving OMDs an immunity to force field damage reduction seems nearly equivalent to giving them a pretty big HP increase (an increase of a similar order of that of a force fields mk. II or mk. III's HP), except maybe for repair costs. This would give almost the same boosted durability without any new tricky mechanics to be implemented. |
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Well making them immune to the reduction would: - make FF immune ships more threatening to the OMD like they are to the command station - force you to use one of your available shields if you want to protect it As for repair, depends on the situation. A small hit to it when it's not under a FF will take MUCH more to repair than if the HP was just buffed (same happens for if you had FF immune units firing on it) |
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I agree Orbital mass drivers die too easily the way they are now. I've got a cursed golem in my current game and I usually just enter enemy planet, pause the game, target the mass driver, let my cursed golem fire a single volley and then retreat back through wormhole again. That's enough to take it out. If I don't have a cursed golem I just use my cap of Mark I raid starships (mark II if the planet is heavily defended) and rush to the mass driver and take it out. It's usually a suicide mission for the Mark I ones, but it does work (killing datacenters or co-processors is often a suicide mission as well so it doesn't really matter) |
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+1 OMDs just arn't useful atm for the player, and weak in the hands of the AI. Their schtick is particularly bad on Epic speed, they take forever to kill anything and are quite vulnerable in return. They either need to shoot out of forcefields or have toughness reflective of their asteroid nature. Right now they are kind of a mediocre stationary siege starship. I suggest a hojillion armor. |
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Just thinking out loud: what about letting them store up shots when they aren't firing? Say up to 3. So when first entering a system, you'll get a near-immediate burst of 3 shots, followed by the normal 10 second reload. That should make them a little more dangerous and interesting. |
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Hey guys. OMDs are really annoying for the player too. They dont need a buff. Consider playing a game against a peacemaker AI, and tell me OMDs are powerful. |
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Yes, they are powerful when they hit, and supposed to be. So one gotta use a non starship strike force. Part of the downside of the peacemaker AI imo :) But tbh, they fall far too fast to be any real threat, I got a new game rolling with the AI having sentinel frigs now, and they simple demolish the OMDs easy as pie, and I can do the same to the AI. I actually had to place a spire shield ship over them to keep them safe. If not a ehp buff, perhaps a radar dampening buff can be a good idea, so they cannot be sniped off as easily as now. (basically my same opinion now, as earlier :P) |
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Adding a note to bump this in the mantis log. Given all the starship and guardian buffs, the OMD should get a buff too. I think these need to be moved back into the potentially feared category rather than being merely annoying and not much else for either side as they stand now. |
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Wouldn't want them to get radar dampening; the arachnid guard post serves the role of a good anti-starship radar dampened tool. Also, something less than 20x boost in power would be good if we got better durability in return. |
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A 20x attack boost puts it at 36,000,000 per shot (at normal/normal). That's midway between the Mk III and Mk IV Arachnid Guardposts. While it could use a little more durability, it's already as tough as a Mk V Ion Cannon. |
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For 7.006: * Orbital Mass Drivers now have the health of a mkI arachnid post and the DPS of a mkIII one (with no change to rate of fire). Both changes are significant buffs. Thanks :) |
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Date Submitted: Jan 29, 2011 8:43 pm Pretty old ticket to be fixing; getting that backlog out of the way? |
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Good night! With that sort of range, isn't the Mk. III anti-starship's offensive stats be a bit of an over-buff? Though I am happy to see it "striking fear" into the hearts of starships, guardians, golems, and other such "huge things" once again. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jan 29, 2011 9:43 pm | Ozymandiaz | New Issue | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:49 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0009848 | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:49 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0009848 | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:50 pm | Ozymandiaz | Note Added: 0009849 | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:51 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0009848 | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:51 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0009850 | |
| Jan 29, 2011 9:51 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0009848 | |
| Jan 30, 2011 3:42 am | KDR_11k | Note Added: 0009856 | |
| Jan 30, 2011 8:01 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0009861 | |
| Jan 30, 2011 1:16 pm | Ozymandiaz | Note Added: 0009871 | |
| Mar 29, 2011 10:13 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0011576 | |
| Mar 29, 2011 10:14 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0011576 | |
| Mar 29, 2011 10:44 pm | HTL2001 | Note Added: 0011578 | |
| Mar 29, 2011 10:58 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0011580 | |
| Mar 30, 2011 4:16 am | HTL2001 | Note Added: 0011582 | |
| Mar 30, 2011 5:58 am | zoutzakje | Note Added: 0011585 | |
| May 5, 2011 1:50 pm | TheDeadlyShoe | Note Added: 0012102 | |
| May 5, 2011 1:52 pm | TheDeadlyShoe | Note Edited: 0012102 | |
| Jun 29, 2011 1:22 pm | Hearteater | Note Added: 0012615 | |
| Jul 1, 2011 3:08 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0012636 | |
| Sep 5, 2011 7:36 am | Ozymandiaz | Note Added: 0013125 | |
| Jun 1, 2013 4:32 am | Tie-Viper | Note Added: 0032749 | |
| Jun 1, 2013 4:34 am | Tie-Viper | Relationship added | has duplicate 0011744 |
| Jun 1, 2013 6:13 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0032764 | |
| Jun 1, 2013 6:15 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0032764 | |
| Jun 1, 2013 10:15 pm | Toranth | Note Added: 0032767 | |
| Jul 2, 2013 9:04 am | Toranth | Relationship added | duplicate of 0011916 |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Internal Weight | => New |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0033093 | |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | new => resolved |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Fixed in Version | => 7.006 |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Jul 8, 2013 4:56 pm | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Jul 8, 2013 5:35 pm | Lancefighter | Note Added: 0033094 | |
| Jul 9, 2013 2:28 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0033096 |
