View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0027062 | AI War 2 | Balance Issue | Apr 21, 2022 2:13 pm | Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | |
| Reporter | ptarth | Assigned To | BadgerBadger | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 4.025 Lightning Conduction | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 4.995 DLC3 Release Candidate 1 | ||||
| Summary | 0027062: Necromance ForceField modules offer poor value | ||||
| Description | It is currently agreed that the ForceField module is a poor (or worse) choice for Flagships and Necropolis. It leads to instant death for the modular unit because of the frequency of AOE attacks. The module doesn't increase shielding strength, it just provides a bubble. The module is very expensive requiring 4 points. To the novice, the high cost and general desirability of ForceFields suggests that it is a very good defensive upgrade, when it is actually very niche and generally leads to death faster. There are also observations (e.g., Mirages attacking Phylactery with a bubbleshield) that Fusion damage will directly damage the hull of the ForceField modular unit, leading to the modular unit having to soak shared damage using hull instead of shield. This would be even worse because the shield size would not shrink, so incoming damage would not be reduced either. I think that the module might need to be redesigned based upon use cases for the forcefield. My guess at use cases. Flagship - Block units from wormhole travel - increase survivability of unit - increase survivability of other units - keep melee units out of range Defense Necropolis - Block units from wormhole travel - keep melee units out of range Major Necropolis/Phylactery - increase survivability of unit - keep melee units out of range Given the short time before the release perhaps something like: * increase shield strength multiplier by 2, * reduce size of forcefield to normal melee range | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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FYI the bubble forcefield does increase shield strength. It is in addition to your personal shields, not a replacement for it. So it's effectively a doubling. Also, incoming damage to other units/structures via shield bypass would go to those structures/units not the bubble, as the bubble would not be able to 'intercept' it. I do agree that on a default, Necromancer-only playthrough (things like Garnet turrets from Sappers could potentially change the math) the bubble is generally not worth having. Price could be changed, how strong it is compared to personal shield, I think there are a number of options. I have no specific proposal, and I think a certain amount of imbalance among modules is just inherent to the feature. |
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Sounds like buffing the amount of increased shield would handle all these objections? Bubble forcefield ships have always acted as a damage sponge, so I don't see why this would be surprising to anyone |
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The bubbleshield does not increase shield value of the modular base necromancer ship. The module does transform it into a bubble forcefield, shield strength does not change. The increased shield strength module does increase the shields of the ship by 50% for both personal and bubble shields. When the bubbleshield drops, there is no backup shield, so there is no increase in total shield points, it IS a replacement of your personal shields. In most non-necromancer cases, the bubble shield generator ISN'T the ship you care about. So it doesn't matter if it dies. Additionally, the AI targets the higher priority ships, so if the bubble shield generator "isn't" dangerous, the AI ignores it to focus on the important targets. From a playing prospective, this generally means force fields increase the durability of your important units. However, in the modular case, the most important ship is the one that has the forcefield. So by choosing the modular forcefield, you make your ship easier to kill, not harder. The mechanisms do make sense, but it is counter intuitive that you don't want a forcefield on your Necropolis because that would generally weaken them. Likewise for flagships. There are certainly use cases where it could work out, but it is not the straightforward "put all forcefields on top of your home command station" strategy that I'm used to. Buffing total shield value would be a quick partial solution. But I'm not convinced it is sufficient for the long term. |
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Edit: I was wrong, ptath's description is correct. Which means it is much worse than I thought, based on the way the tooltip reads I thought you ended up with both a bubble and a personal forcefield underneath that. So yeah, this is a bigger problem. To be worth the currently assigned module points, the shield value would have to be many times larger than it currently is. I agree that the usual distinction between the bubble forcefield and the thing you are trying to protect applies here. Exceptions in the standard human empire are the forcefield frigate (you don't care if it dies really) and the Rorqual Hegira (massive shield strength). |
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These modules are no longer visible in the UI |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Apr 21, 2022 2:13 pm | ptarth | New Issue | |
| Apr 21, 2022 2:37 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0066224 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 2:39 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066224 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 2:40 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066224 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 4:30 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0066226 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 4:58 pm | ptarth | Note Added: 0066229 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 8:01 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Added: 0066233 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 8:01 pm | Strategic Sage | File Added: Forcefield.png | |
| Apr 21, 2022 8:03 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066233 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 8:05 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066233 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 8:07 pm | Strategic Sage | Note Edited: 0066233 | |
| Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | BadgerBadger | Assigned To | => BadgerBadger |
| Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | BadgerBadger | Status | new => resolved |
| Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | BadgerBadger | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | BadgerBadger | Fixed in Version | => 4.995 DLC3 Release Candidate 1 |
| Apr 21, 2022 9:04 pm | BadgerBadger | Note Added: 0066236 |
