View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0003102 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - Balance Tweaks | Mar 25, 2011 2:54 am | Mar 26, 2011 10:54 am | |
| Reporter | Garthor | Assigned To | keith.lamothe | ||
| Status | resolved | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Product Version | 5.007 | ||||
| Summary | 0003102: AI uses far too many Electric Bombers in LotS waves | ||||
| Description | The AI seems to be using an utterly absurd number of Electric Bombers (and possibly other low-cap ship types) in attack waves from Light of the Spire events (and maybe exogalactic strikeforces). In one instance, one group consisted of around 33 each of normal-cap ships (such as bombers, fighters, etc.) and 22 Electric Bombers... about seven times as many as there should be given the cap, assuming the wave should've been composed of an equal cap-fraction of each ship type. Alternatively, comparing kill totals from before and after acquiring the second shard, approximately 1000 Bombers were killed, compared to 550 Electric Bombers. The Bomber kill count is likely inflated by normally composed waves between the two saves, however. Attached save is approximately in position to retrieve the second shard (survey ship just needs to be built at Disdesye). Good luck after that, though. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | |||||
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Are the exo-wormhole and the event wave spawning logic obeying ship cap ratios like normal waves do? If not, oops. |
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The logic for event-attack composition (which is used for chase groups and exos) is completely different from the normal wave/reinforcement logic but is actually far more intentional about treating different ship types as having different values and operating within a fixed point budget. A few of the relevant rules: - Bombers range from Medium Cutter for mkI (6 points) up through Heavy Corvette for mkV (32 points). - Zenith Electric Bombers range from Medium Corvette for mkI (24 points) up through Heavy Frigate for mkV (128 points). - Most exo groups split their points into 1/3rd for a lead ship, 1/3rd for escorts, and 1/3rd for pickets. The points are spent in that order and leftovers carry over. - Pickets are only picked (no pun intended) from the bottom nine size classes (Heavy Corvette and down), and it can only pick a maximum of 32 from each of those classes (on high caps, 16 on normal and 8 on low). This generally means it will have points left over. - Any points left over after pickets are chosen are run through the escort-picking routine repeatedly until it has zero points left or can't pick find anything it can afford. - Escorts are picked only from Light Frigate and up; it: -- Finds the highest size tier where 1/8th of the escort points can buy one of that tier, and buys three of those. -- Finds the highest size tier where 1/16th of the escort points can buy one of that tier, and buys four of those. It is possible that this is the same size tier as the previous step. -- Finds the highest size tier where 1/32nd of the escort points can buy one of that tier, and buys six of those. -- Finds the highest size tier where 1/64th of the escort points can buy one of that tier, and buys twelve of those. -- For those of you checking my math, 3/8 + 4/16 + 6/32 + 12/64 = .375 + .25 + .1875 + .1875 = 1. But the picked size tiers are almost never exactly the desired fraction of the escort budget, but they are always not greater than it, so there are leftovers. Anyway, only MkI and MkII electric bombers can be picked for pickets, mkIII+ are low-end escorts. Depending on how the math works out, it's possible to cycle through the escort routine enough that it winds up having the most total ships. Which is just fine really. Finally, for any objection or bug report pertaining to an event-attack's composition to have a chance of being acted upon, it will need to be accompanied by a copy of the EventAttackCompositionLog.txt file :) That can be obtained by turning on the Advanced Logging toggle (Advanced tab, Settings window), running the game until the attack ships are actually spawned into the game world, and then getting the file out of the game's RuntimeData subdirectory. |
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Gee, what a nice simple ship selection logic. With that level of simplicity, it should be easy to spot bugs or oversights if odd or unbalanced behavior comes up. :P |
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Is a mk5 electric bomber really only 4 times as powerful as a mk5 bomber? That seems a little low. |
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The numbers certainly aren't exactly right, and they have and will continue to see adjustment (I could bump zelecs up a notch or two, for instance). But in general it works out, some of the picks are more power/point efficient, some are less, and it kind of randomizes the actual power since the types are picked randomly. For instance, you'd see a fair bit of stuff in the "frigate" tier in early event attacks because of the relatively low point values available for escorts. But as the points get higher it won't many or any frigates because of being able to afford bigger escorts (upper-mark guardians and the like, and eventually lower-mark spirecraft and whatnot). It tends to just work out. |
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Alright, cool. |
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EventAttackCompositionInfoLog.txt (15,121 bytes)
3/25/2011 6:15:27 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- Populating EventAttackArmada, 15000 total points; Game Time: 5:02:06 3/25/2011 6:15:27 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 Parasite Light Cutter 8 4 32 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 6 48 FighterII Light Cutter 8 6 48 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 8 96 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 2 24 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 10 160 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 4 128 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 2 64 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 6 192 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 8 384 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 6 288 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 12 768 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 4 256 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianArtillery Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLightning Medium Frigate 96 1 96 ZenithElectricBomberIV Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianArtilleryII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianTractorII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianRaiderII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianSniperIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianRaiderIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianFlakIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftSiegeTowerII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:15:27 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 6 48 Parasite Light Cutter 8 4 32 FighterII Light Cutter 8 6 48 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 8 96 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 8 96 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 8 128 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 4 128 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 6 192 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 4 128 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 2 64 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 4 192 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 6 288 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 4 192 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 8 512 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 8 512 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianLaser Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianRaider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianArtillery Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaserII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianBeamII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianSniperII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianFlakII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 Flagship Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianRaiderIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianSpiderIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftImplosionII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:21:49 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- Populating EventAttackArmada, 15000 total points; Game Time: 5:05:06 3/25/2011 6:21:49 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 6 48 FighterII Light Cutter 8 2 16 Parasite Light Cutter 8 8 64 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 6 72 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 2 24 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 8 128 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 6 192 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 2 64 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 4 192 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 4 192 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 6 288 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 2 96 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 12 768 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 4 256 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianRaider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSniper Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianFlak Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianArtilleryII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianTractorII Heavy Frigate 128 2 256 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianSpiderIII Light Destroyer 256 2 512 AIGuardianBeamIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftImplosionII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:21:49 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 4 32 Parasite Light Cutter 8 6 48 FighterII Light Cutter 8 6 48 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 6 72 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 6 72 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 2 24 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 8 128 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 6 192 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 6 192 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 10 480 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 6 384 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 10 640 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 ZenithElectricBomberIV Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianBeam Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaser Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianRaiderII Heavy Frigate 128 2 256 AIGuardianSniperII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianLaserII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianBeamIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianLightningIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianLaserIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftImplosionII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:12 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- Populating EventAttackArmada, 15000 total points; Game Time: 5:06:06 3/25/2011 6:22:12 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 FighterII Light Cutter 8 4 32 Parasite Light Cutter 8 8 64 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 4 32 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 8 96 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 2 24 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 10 160 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 6 192 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 6 192 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 6 288 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 4 192 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 2 96 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 4 192 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 10 640 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 6 384 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianTractor Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianRaider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianFlak Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaserII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianFlakII Heavy Frigate 128 2 256 AIGuardianSpiderII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 Flagship Light Destroyer 256 2 512 AIGuardianSpiderIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftSiegeTowerII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:12 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 FighterII Light Cutter 8 8 64 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 6 48 Parasite Light Cutter 8 2 16 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 6 72 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 8 96 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 4 128 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 8 256 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 4 128 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 8 384 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 2 96 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 4 192 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 2 96 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 4 256 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 12 768 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianSniper Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaser Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianTractor Medium Frigate 96 1 96 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianLightningII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 LightStarship Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianArtilleryII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianFlakIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianLaserIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianTractorIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftImplosionII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:37 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- Populating EventAttackArmada, 15000 total points; Game Time: 5:07:06 3/25/2011 6:22:37 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 Parasite Light Cutter 8 8 64 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 4 32 FighterII Light Cutter 8 4 32 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 6 72 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 6 72 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 6 192 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 8 256 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 2 64 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 10 480 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 2 96 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 10 640 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 6 384 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianArtillery Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSpider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianTractor Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianTractorII Heavy Frigate 128 2 256 AIGuardianArtilleryII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianSniperII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianLightningIII Light Destroyer 256 2 512 Flagship Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftImplosionII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:37 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 10 80 FighterII Light Cutter 8 6 48 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 8 96 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 12 384 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 4 128 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 10 480 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 4 192 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 2 96 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 12 768 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 4 256 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 ZenithElectricBomberIV Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSniper Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianRaider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianRaiderII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianSpiderII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianArtilleryII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 Flagship Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianFlakIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 AIGuardianSniperIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftSiegeTowerII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:55 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- Populating EventAttackArmada, 15000 total points; Game Time: 5:08:06 3/25/2011 6:22:55 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 Parasite Light Cutter 8 8 64 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 2 16 FighterII Light Cutter 8 6 48 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 8 96 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 2 24 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 4 64 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 6 192 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 2 64 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 6 192 CoreFighter Light Corvette 32 2 64 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 8 384 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 6 288 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 10 640 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 6 384 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianLightning Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaser Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSniper Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLaserII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 2 256 AIGuardianBeamII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianLightningIII Light Destroyer 256 2 512 AIGuardianLaserIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftSiegeTowerII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. 3/25/2011 6:22:55 PM (5.007) ----------------------------------- BattleGroup of 7500 Points FGType SubTier Tier CostEach Count TotalCost Fighter Heavy Drone 6 16 96 MissileShip Light Cutter 8 8 64 FighterII Light Cutter 8 8 64 ParasiteII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 Bomber Medium Cutter 12 8 96 MissileShipII Medium Cutter 12 4 48 FighterIII Medium Cutter 12 2 24 ParasiteIII Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 Cruiser Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 FighterIV Heavy Cutter 16 6 96 BomberII Heavy Cutter 16 2 32 BomberIII Light Corvette 32 8 256 CruiserIV Light Corvette 32 2 64 ParasiteIV Light Corvette 32 6 192 CoreLeech Medium Corvette 48 4 192 ZenithElectricBomber Medium Corvette 48 4 192 BomberIV Medium Corvette 48 6 288 CoreBattleCruiser Medium Corvette 48 2 96 CoreBomber Heavy Corvette 64 10 640 ZenithElectricBomberII Heavy Corvette 64 6 384 ZenithElectricBomberIII Light Frigate 64 9 576 AIGuardianFlak Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianLightning Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSpider Medium Frigate 96 1 96 AIGuardianSniperII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 LightStarship Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianLaserII Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 CoreZenithElectricBomber Heavy Frigate 128 1 128 AIGuardianTractorIII Light Destroyer 256 2 512 AIGuardianLightningIII Light Destroyer 256 1 256 SpirecraftSiegeTowerII Heavy Cruiser 2048 1 2048 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 None None None 0 0 0 Battlegroup actual budget spent: 7168 on 132 ships. |
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Well, Mantis just ate my post and I have to go, so I'll be short (which I'm sure you prefer anyway): Core Bombers have the same points as both Mark II and III bombers, (2 is in the Picket class, 3 is in the Escort class), at 64 points. Mark II Electric Bombers have three times the health and damage (after multipliers) of Core Bombers, so this feels rather lopsided. Additionally, having marks in both the picket and escort class sounds to me like it ends up inflating the numbers of them (getting to pick twice), but that might not an issue if they weren't so relatively cheap. The two different mark levels costing the same may also be an issue, but that might be intentional (as it's crossing from Picket to Escort, which might intentionally reduce the power/cost ratio?). Regardless, the FEEL of it is that the waves are absolutely terrifying due to the massive damage and the huge health pools to chew through. I've uploaded the log. |
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"Mantis just ate my post" Ouch, yea, that used to happen to me a lot before. Now I type up the post in a separate text editor because mantis is so preternaturally good at permanently destroying my efforts to post something ;) "Core Bombers have the same points as both Mark II and III bombers, (2 is in the Picket class, 3 is in the Escort class), at 64 points." Yea, the Corvette and lower classes actually multiply their costs on cap scales lower than high (2x for normal, 4x for low) to account for most corvette/cutter/drone stuff being scaled. Which is one reason to bump all the non-scaled fleet ships (like the zelec... actually the zelec WAS being scaled, I'm fixing that to not do that, since it's a 0.1 multiplier type) up to at least light-frigate. Another reason, as you've pointed out, is that a core bomber is in no way as fearsome as a mkII or mkIII zelec. Nothing against the core bomber, it's just a different class of ship. So I've bumped the zelecs up two grades, so the mkI starts at light-frigate, which is 1 mark above the mkV bomber (and costs 64 points compared to the mkV bomber's 32, on high caps). My extremely rough guess is that a mkV bomber is 7 times more dangerous than a mkI bomber (having 5x the raw stats, in general), and that the zelec mkI ought to be 15-20 times as dangerous as a mkI bomber. So costing 2x as much as a mkV bomber sounds roughly right. The balance isn't supposed to be very precise, but it was a bit much before, thank you for bringing that up. "Regardless, the FEEL of it is that the waves are absolutely terrifying due to the massive damage and the huge health pools to chew through." Well, "absolutely terrifying" is definitely one of the goals of the event-attack mechanic ;) But it can always stand a little scrutiny to improve internal consistency. (this post survived the maw of mantis, unlike it's immediate predecessor and copy, thanks to an external text editor) |
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Well, "absolutely terrifying" relative to previous experiences with recovering the second shard, which a mobile fleet was usually capable of handling, WITHOUT the backup of two golems, a black hole generator, and a massive chokepoint. Which reminds me that the AI was being a bit stupid with their fleets regarding the black hole generator, in that they would first fly to the exit, regroup, and THEN realize they can't go through. Let me look into that a bit... |
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Does this Z-elec nerf also mean that for instance say a mad-bomber will have less of them, and trow less of them at you in regular waves? Just wondering :) |
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This is only relevant to event-attacks, sorry ;) If you have a concern about wave composition, Advanced Logging is happy to churn out a AIThreadWaveComputationLog.txt and a MainThreadWaveComputationLog.txt in your RuntimeData directory (when the wave is announced, not when spawned), and you can post those in a separate mantis issue :) I've been several-times over the logic for ensuring that ship cap multipliers are properly considered in wave sizes, though, and I think it's working properly. The human gets 1/10th as many zelecs as bombers, and the AI waves get 1/10 as many zelecs as they would bombers. On high caps; zelecs will no longer scale so the ratio would be 1:5 and 1:2.5 on normal and low, respectively. |
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Not saying it is bugged, just wondering if I can expect different behaviour. Mad-bombers tend to like Z-electics :) |
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Yea, the mad bomber's madness continues unchecked ;) |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 25, 2011 2:54 am | Garthor | New Issue | |
| Mar 25, 2011 2:54 am | Garthor | File Added: 05-09.sav | |
| Mar 25, 2011 8:05 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0011448 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:52 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011449 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:52 am | keith.lamothe | Assigned To | => keith.lamothe |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:52 am | keith.lamothe | Status | new => feedback |
| Mar 25, 2011 11:00 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0011450 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 1:12 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0011452 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 1:18 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011453 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 3:49 pm | Sunshine | Note Added: 0011460 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 9:57 pm | Garthor | File Added: EventAttackCompositionInfoLog.txt | |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:01 pm | Garthor | Note Added: 0011471 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:01 pm | Garthor | Status | feedback => assigned |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:48 pm | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011474 | |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:48 pm | keith.lamothe | Status | assigned => resolved |
| Mar 25, 2011 10:48 pm | keith.lamothe | Resolution | open => fixed |
| Mar 26, 2011 12:57 am | Garthor | Note Added: 0011479 | |
| Mar 26, 2011 9:14 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0011484 | |
| Mar 26, 2011 9:50 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011486 | |
| Mar 26, 2011 10:18 am | Red Spot | Note Added: 0011487 | |
| Mar 26, 2011 10:54 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0011488 |
