View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0003715 | AI War 1 / Classic | Suggestion - New Features | Aug 6, 2011 10:12 pm | Mar 4, 2015 7:42 am | |
| Reporter | X1Alpha | Assigned To | Chris_McElligottPark | ||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Summary | 0003715: Major Factions | ||||
| Description | Note: After reading this in this scrolling text box i have decided to include this as a Microsoft word document as well as provide a summary for all those who don't like my massive wall of text, mainly because that is easier then reading all the text below on here Summary: Major factions (friendly and hostile) that are interact-able (Trade and war) and vie for control of the system; (Zenith Remnant, Neinzul, and etc) Key: = Represents clarification - Represents technical/gameplay point -=- Represents a major point -=-Tiered Trade-=- -Trading with other factions is linked to the Ai progress; this is for 2 reasons; 1. It stops the player from becoming overpowered through trade; 2. It makes protecting a faction worthwhile. -The way trade is linked to AI progress is based on the tech levels of the AI; EX. Tier 2 occurs when at least one AI has reached tech level 2 (or tech level 3 for technologist AIs). =This makes the factions actually interact able and helps keep in the idea within the “risk assessment” of choices a play makes (Keep a faction alive to gain their tech, or destroy them so they don’t increase the AI progress). -When an item is bought, the selling faction does not instantly gain the resources, instead they gain X amount per second until they have received the total amount of the item they sold. =This is mainly so that a faction with maxed resources (999,999/999,999) doesn’t waste all of its resources by gaining a lump sum. -Factions will not trade with an enemy. -Trade would occur either through using another faction’s command center, or by building a trading post on a world near them (I would recommend modeling the system based on zenith traders). -=-Construction Capsule-=- -Construction Capsules are bought from other factions when you buy their tech; they generally contain tech 1-3 fabricators, golems, or mining enclosure spire craft. -Construction Capsules are consumed when used to build, and you must start the construction at 0%. =Used in combination with the trade system; IE buy a 300k capsule, but the golem inside costs more resources to actually build. -You can only own 1 of the same type of construction capsule; they move slow and cannot be loaded into transports. =This allows the player to choose where to place the item they have bought, and at the same time helps balance the player’s ability to abuse the buying system. -=-Tech 1-3 Fabricators-=- -Low Tech Fabricators can only construct a single ship (IE Tech 2 Bomber fabricator can only build tech 2 bomber). -Their initial resource cost for building and the energy they require is based on their tech level. =They are essentially pathetic versions of fabricators that you can buy from other factions; this prevents the actual buying of technology of other factions; They change ownership on planet capture. =Recommend tech 1, 2 and 3 fabricator capsules to cost 300k, 600k and 900k resources accordingly. NOTE: if implemented, I recommend having the energy requirements of these facilities to be quite high (with tech 3 being medium level golem high) to prevent spamming. -=-Difficulty Settings-=- -Easy: The faction will not expand beyond 5 planets (80 system galaxy) and will defend itself from aggressors; it will start out neutral to the players. -Medium: The faction will stay true to its play style and act and expand accordingly; it will start out neutral to the players. -Hard: The faction will follow its play style but will also expand and act more aggressively; it will start out hostile to all players and other factions, but will become neutral if it deems the player as useable. -Multiplayer: A non-host player may assume control of the faction instead of playing the standard human faction; Late joiners can join this faction, but only the initial player who assumed control will play as this faction itself (think of late joiners in standard multiplayer). -Host: The hosting player will assume control of the faction instead of playing the standard human faction; late joiners can join this faction, but only the initial player who assumed control will play as this faction itself. =Each difficulty setting will override the one above it. =In hard, the “deem useable” part is based on if the AI prefers to attack you instead of the faction (why attack you if your usefull?). =The reason why late joiners can’t take over a major faction is because the way multiplayer works, and to prevent a griefer from taking over a large faction and steam rolling the other players; Because of this late joiners also assume the alliance stance of the faction they join (IE if I join a faction that is hostile to the player, I will also be set to hostile). -=-Major Factions-=- =Each faction has a “Tech Style”, a “Trade Style” and a “Play Style”; these keep them unique and true to the game. -Destroying their home command center provides a boost to AIP; this simulates the AI having to spend less CPU and units on that faction, and allocating them towards you. Pirates/Marauders (Based off of the marauder minor faction) -=-Tech style: They start the game with 3 semi-random ship types; 1 having tractor beams, 1 doing reclamation damage, and 1 being cloaked. -They do not acquire tech from stealing from the AI; they however utilize knowledge, at 3k per planet. -They can research and build tech 2 and 3 of any ship they have, along with the tech 1 version of ANY ship that meets these requirements: Is not Alien; has tractor beams, or is cloaked, or does reclamation damage. -Special cloaking field technology (Think planet cloaker but uses a field like a force field; cloaking field emitters themselves aren’t invisible). =So they cannot use the spire stealth battleship even though its stealth; and using cloaking fields around their command center they don’t need defenses and don’t draw the attention from the AI. -=-Trade Style: will trade construction capsules of fabricators equal to the current tech level (1-3). -At tier 4 they will trade tech 1 cloaking fields. -=-Play Style: Raids any planet that is adjacent to their occupied planets regardless of who owns it (unless they own it). -Gain resources for destroying enemy units/buildings (similar to a person that scraps their unit/building). =This will make high resource/low HP targets like ion cannons and research stations good targets for them. -Will attempt to colonize any empty system, regardless of supply or position. =This makes them interesting, and true to their design; they don’t technically colonize and supply is irrelevant, so they will colonize that system you nuked on impulse. Defective/Rampant AI -=-Tech Style: They start with fighters, bombers, and frigates (same as the human player). -They acquire technology the same way the player does: by capturing advance research stations and by gaining knowledge; they can gain up to 4000 knowledge per planet. -They can reverse engineer a fabricator (of any tech level) and acquire a tech 1 version of the ship. -They can research and build tech 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 versions of any ship they own. -They can research guardians and guard posts. =This goes in line with standard real AI’s; not creative, so they cannot make new techs, but can perfect old ones; I recommend making the core version (tech 5) research cost VERY expensive. -=-Trade Style: they will trade construction capsules of fabricators equal to the current tech level minus 1 (meaning no trade at tech 0). =Don’t want players gaining Core (tech 5) ships; it’s just not AI war if you don’t have to make an important choice on it. -=-Play Style: Neuters the surrounding AI worlds; after neutering the AI, it will attack one world and take it over; then it will fortify it. -Will not attack other major factions (including the player) unless there is no AI planet on its borders, if so it will attack the weakest planet that is adjacent to it. -If a nearby planet contains a fabricator of a ship type they do not own, they will attempt to capture the planet and reverse engineer the fabricator (scrap + gain designs). =This provides an interesting scenario: if a faction (or the player) has fabricators on their frontal worlds, the Rogue AI will attack relentlessly to gain that valuable technology. Zenith Remnant (Requires Zenith expansion) -=-Tech Style: They start with 3 random Zenith technologies; gain up to 3k knowledge per planet. -They can research and build tech 2 and 3 of any ship they have, along with the tech 1 version of ANY ship that meets these requirements: Is Zenith. -Can research and build Golems (for a higher cost then broken golems) (requires Golems to be enabled). -Cannot research or build mining, devourer or dyson sphere golems. =They’re tech is the most similar to a normal player. -=-Trade style: will trade construction capsules of fabricators equal to the current tech level (1-3). -at tier 4 they will trade golem construction capsules that contain a single unfinished (broken) golem. =this makes them a note worthy ally/enemy in the late game; as if they were trying to rebuild their former power. -=-Play style: they will set up border defenses, and launch beachheads on the weakest adjacent enemy planet (or neutral if no enemy is nearby). =Unlike the humans who act as semi-raiders the zenith are actually going to war. Neinzul Collective (requires Neinzul mini-expansion) (I’m still trying to find a more fitting name) -=-Tech style: starts with enclaves and 3 random neinzul (youngling?) ship types; they gain up to 3k knowledge per planet. -They can research and build tech 2 and 3 of any ship they have, along with the tech 1 version of ANY ship that meets these requirements: Is Neinzul. -They have access to hive carrier technology (part Hybrid hives, part tech 2 transport, all Neinzul); the hives can upgrade themselves at a large cost of resource, and every upgrade adds new tech. -They can build limited range missile silos (only if rocketry corps is enabled). =The hive carriers are there to make them a viable faction, mainly because the decay rates of their units make them hard to maintain as a fleet; =Example of how hive evolving would work: Tech 1 it can upgrade to a multitude of tech 2 hives; at tech 2 it can only upgrade to a specific number of tech 3 hives based on what type of hive it is, and so on (basically emulating advanced hybrid hives, but orientated for replay ability in singleplayer and multiplayer). -=-Trade style: will trade construction capsules of fabricators equal to the current tech level (1-3). -at tier 4 will trade hive construction capsules that contain a single unfinished tech 1 hive. =Neinzul tech is a grey area for me, but hives have ALWAYS been awesome. -=-Play style: Use youngling and hive patrols for defense; will also build limit range missile silos on core (not adjacent to another faction) worlds. -will launch attacks using enclaves and hive support on a random adjacent planet; if the attack fails they regroup and attack another random adjacent world. -If they fail 4 assaults in a row, they will bombard with missiles and do a massive assault. =The Neinzul expand quickly, but are easily stopped at tech 3, 4 and 5 worlds, and because they age so fast they don’t hold alliances or enemies. Rising Spire (Requires Spire expansion) (id actually like to paint them black call them “The Black Spire”, to separate them from the other spire) -=-Tech style: starts with access to spire colony ship and 3 random spire ship types (IE mini-rams). -They can research and build tech 2, 3, and 4 of any ship they have, along with the tech 1 version of ANY ship that meets these requirements: Is spire. -They can research and build tech 1-4 mining enclosure spire ships without using mining enclosures. -They can build spire hubs, reactors, shipyards, and habitat centers. -They can build and utilize a spire galactic capital; they cannot build the exo-galactic transit gate. =They are basically an independent spire empire. -=-Trade style: will trade construction capsules of fabricator equal to the current tech level (1-3). -will trade construction capsules of mining enclosures that are of a tech level equal to the current tech minus 2 (tech 1 spire ships at tech 3). =I feel this keeps the balances of asteroids, as by tech 3 and 4 the tech 1 and 2 spire ships are not useless but you’re not going out of the way to acquire them. -=-Play style: They can build one hub per world, and with 3 extra structures (so every world will have 1 hub, 1 reactor, 1 habitat center, and 1 shipyard). -They will deploy spire outposts on resource points as defense. -Their standard spire ships use the same rule as the normal spire (4 frigates per shipyard, etc); however they can also build the human-spire bonus ships they have unlocked (mini-ram, stealth battleship, etc). -They attack nearby enemy worlds based on the firepower of their fleet vs. the firepower of the enemy world, only going for a ratio equal to or greater than 1.5 to 1 (in their favor). -They aim to capture worlds with Spire civilian leaders and will utilize them to lower AIP. =They play out opposite to the Neinzul; they start out weak and grow exponentially powerful; =I decided the 1 hub per planet etc. based on what would bring out the most in the spire; utilizing spacing would kill off the faction right at the start, and add in the pirate and you have major problems. Human Players (This is just here so that the factions can trade with you) -=-Trade Style: Factions can buy construction capsules of tech 1-3 fabricators of ships you own (trust me the rampant AI will buy everything it doesn’t have from you, just to reverse engineer). -At tier 4, factions can buy tech 1 construction capsules that hold missiles (Nukes may or may not be includes, for balanced reasons). My list of reason why this would add to AI War but also keep inline of the game’s Intended play style =it can be melded with existing expansions and game play =It is geared toward both singeplayer and multiplayer =It makes the galaxy seem like its growing when the AI is not “awake” and it makes the galaxy seem even more hectic when the AI is “awake” =It allows you to discover more about the alien species and other factions, thus making the world more immersive. =It adds pseudo PvP while keeping the core mechanic (EX. All players/factions have the same goal: eliminate the AI; however that doesn’t mean they will cooperate, and should they choose not to cooperate, the AI will surely take advantage of that) =it keeps the “Meaningful Choice” feeling of AI war (EX. Keep the Zenith Remnant alive to acquire the golems they have researched, however this will increase AIP as they destroy AI worlds for more resources and knowledge; Or destroy them now in the hopes that removing them will stop keep the AI progress low enough for you to capture more worlds for yourself; Or ignore them and allow them to draw the AI’s attention (and waves/reinforcements while you “Go for the throat”) | ||||
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Whew, talk about a major extension to the game. But, from what I can see it looks very well thought out and probably feasible if there's interest in this sort of thing from players; there's a lot of details of implementation to be filled in, but this could work as the anchor of an expansion for sure. Probably not the next expansion, as we already have some pretty sizable ideas for that one, but it's definitely an interesting idea to pursue at some point. If folks are particularly interested in this and want to see it sooner than later, please don't forget to vote it up and let us know! Or the reverse. |
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I've been thinking of something vaguely like this for an expansion idea too, but I was planning to start a bit smaller and work up from there ;) |
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Well, it's not like this doesn't preclude that, either. :) |
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Right, I meant that some movement in this direction was possible already :) |
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Okay, I gotcha. I'll leave that to you, then. :) |
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Glad to see your considering it; i generally mod games, so when i come up with an idea i like to be creative, but i also like to make mods that both stick with the style of the game, and that utilize already in use features to make it both easier to add, and easier for new players to understand. That said i also like trying to be thorough, and since i cannot do the kind of modding i generally do on a game like this, i decided to post the same guide line i would utilize at the start of my projects. Hopefully they have been insightful |
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just a thought you could bill this as a prequel to how the universe got this way. the ai faction taking over the galaxy and building a gate network for example while wiping everyone else out. i think there needs to be a better thought process on the faction/trading system. i like the idea alot and would provide a more customizable multiplayer experience. this also may require the tech system to be reworked to balance out the requirements of expansion. in fact that may be the main point of negotiation and peace is allowing others access for research of your worlds points. |
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@mortal: That sounds like Defender Mode actually. Each of the human civilizations [players] trying to hold off the never ending AI onslaught, but instead of just defending the human players could stage counter attacks to prevent the construction of hunter killers or to destroy the warp gate network causing attacks to head toward proper choke points (or those other players you don't like as much :) ). The player who gets the most points wins then. |
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I had similar idea but not same. i had similar idea of using minor factions to play big roll in game. i would like see civilations eg AI small planets that have eg mark 1 home planet go around acting like players and you can decide to help them attack them. in there efforts, EG light spire all over agian but major factions :D |
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@Commiesalami Sounds like AI Wars, The Prequel, will be the next next expansion. |
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@Ranakastrasz It shouldnt be a prequel if one human outpost can survive im pretty sure other things can survive, also the ai is looking outward and we are just a bunch of insects in its garden. Think about it. |
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Don't make the Neinzul a major faction or we'll have roaming enclaves and preservation wardens comming out the wood work :( Joking aside... This definitely looks well thought out. Would like to see something like this implimented. Maybe make it so it'd need a larger galazy to play with and some galaxy styles does not support it (eg snake). Maybe the minor factions could be tweeked for this too? Like Marauder minor faction has a chance to spawn and assist when the major faction is attacking or defending a planet. |
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Very much in favor of this, have been since I first came across this game, very well thought out. I was about to write up a suggestion, Can be as simple as you like. Spawns with X stays with X, spawns with X expands to X. Has aggressive to everyone, or just aggressive to certain other factions (you for instance). Could make for some interesting early game scenarios, such as alien invasion against an established but dying off easy computer player, or many small aggressive entities going for control. Thanks for considering this!!!! It is one I would buy in a DLC. |
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Sounds like a neat idea! But now I'm curious to know what you have in mind for the next expansion hahahahahahaha |
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Good idea, but seems that it takes a lot of work to add and make all the factions actually interesting and not just a few units. |
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The Helpful minor factions are one of my favorite parts of the game--they make the game much more interesting. I would love to see something like this as a DLC. P.S. In addition to fleshing out the other races into minor factions, I would love to see more of the human rebels and marauders. They mostly seem to exist on the outskirts of solar systems, or in nebula. Perhaps you could add nebula (or simply planet-less, asteroid-less solar systems the A.I. doesn't care about) that house their bases? It seems weird that their ships are just floating alone in the void--those fighter sized ships can't have *that* good of life support--are they joining their ships together, into a single vessel when not in combat, or do they have hidden bases? |
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Personally, I'm against the idea of this being staged as some sort of 'prequel', as I don't think that would mix well with the existing game. However, to find various third parties (especially on 120 maps) would definitely spice up the game past "Find the bloody homeworld for crying out loud." Honestly, this seems like a brilliant idea though. The idea of an alive universe, with factions acting of their own accord and benefit, would be interesting. The only trick would be limiting their size. If, say, a foolish player were to sell *everything* to the defective AI, given its neutering behavior it may actually be able to overpower the AI or drive the AIP so absurdly high that winning is impossible. Still, I really hope to see this in the future. Hell, I'd pay for this. |
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Absolutely, without a doubt I'd buy this. Just reading that has brought my hype for any game to a record breaking high! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this x4000! The only thing is that Younglings seem a bit short lived even with carriers, I think the only way around this is to allow starships to each regenerate a small number of Younglings at a time, or allow the Hives to regenerate large portions of the Younglings faster than the norm. (Maybe a certain hive in particular does this with increasing capacity and effectiveness as tech level increase) If balancing is an issue, the regeneration hives don't have to be able to build them themselves. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 6, 2011 10:12 pm | X1Alpha | New Issue | |
| Aug 6, 2011 10:12 pm | X1Alpha | File Added: AI war Major Factions.docx | |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:01 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0012826 | |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:01 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Assigned To | => Chris_McElligottPark |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:01 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Status | new => considering |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:02 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0012827 | |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:03 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0012828 | |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:04 am | keith.lamothe | Note Added: 0012829 | |
| Aug 8, 2011 9:07 am | Chris_McElligottPark | Note Added: 0012830 | |
| Aug 8, 2011 3:39 pm | X1Alpha | Note Added: 0012833 | |
| Aug 9, 2011 4:50 am | motai | Note Added: 0012840 | |
| Aug 10, 2011 4:30 am | Commiesalami | Note Added: 0012848 | |
| Aug 15, 2011 4:08 am | soMe_RandoM | Note Added: 0012877 | |
| Aug 15, 2011 11:31 am | Ranakastrasz | Note Added: 0012888 | |
| Aug 15, 2011 9:56 pm | ludsoe | Note Added: 0012892 | |
| Aug 17, 2011 11:54 am | GeneReyva | Note Added: 0012897 | |
| May 1, 2012 10:56 am | Karrade | Note Added: 0023148 | |
| May 1, 2012 11:09 am | Wingflier | Note Added: 0023152 | |
| Jun 19, 2014 9:10 pm | crawlers | Note Added: 0038540 | |
| Jan 2, 2015 1:12 pm | zswesterdahl | Note Added: 0039808 | |
| Feb 24, 2015 10:22 pm | sk_2013 | Note Added: 0039915 | |
| Mar 4, 2015 7:42 am | ParadoxSong | Note Added: 0039919 | |
| Mar 4, 2015 7:44 am | ParadoxSong | Note Edited: 0039919 | |
| Mar 4, 2015 7:45 am | ParadoxSong | Note Edited: 0039919 |
