View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | Date Submitted | Last Update | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0008878 | Valley 1 | Suggestion - Balancing Issues | Jul 10, 2012 4:48 am | Jul 11, 2012 10:09 am | |
| Reporter | Misery | Assigned To | |||
| Status | considering | Resolution | open | ||
| Product Version | 1.116 | ||||
| Summary | 0008878: Replace Fairies' attack with anything else | ||||
| Description | Mostly, these are literally the single most annoying (and time consuming) things in the game, at least in my case (since I *have* to use the targeting system). Doing one of the "reach certain cave level" unlocks, I found myself turning the difficulty down to the lowest level for one, and only one, reason: To stop it from taking absolutely forever to get rid of the unending fairies. Almost every boss room is a Fairy room (the only other boss that ever appears in the caves is the Shadow Bats, and only every now and then), and they fire WAY too many seekers. The targeting system utterly breaks down in the presence of these; I have to pause the game and carefully select the bloody things or I cant aim at them. Even without having to use that system though, these would STILL be way too annoying, since the little ones just get in the way, but provide next to no challenge; the simplest way to defeat these bosses is to stand perfectly still with a shield and just absorb the small ones, and then fire at the big ones. Rinse, repeat..... way too easy. Normally, I dont like using such a method.... but any other method takes forever since the things block all shots; the only piercing shot I can actually HIT the things with is the Light one (rocks dont work with the targeting, Tidal Pulse is a little too slow, Luminous Arc also doesnt work with targeting), but it's way too weak to be any use. The newest patches for the game have given an actual reason to go into caves now, because they often have secret missions in them, but I find myself avoiding them ANYWAY due to the extreme tedium of getting rid of fairies. Even the Eagles arent THAT annoying. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Internal Weight | Feature Suggestion | ||||
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For both rocks and tidal pulse, you could use a + projectile speed modifier. I'm almost always using + projectile speed, mostly to change Throw Rock from this overly heavy thing to a cannon ^^. And the greater + projectile speed modifier you have, the straighter Throw Rock Shoots. That said, I use a mouse, not a controller. You seem to be saying that Faeries are harder than they should be when using a controller. Would the issue be fixed if the seekers could not be targeted? (I would say not *all* seekers - just faerie seekers.) Another possible solution would be to have either multiple targeting systems, or to be able to toggle how the one targeting system works. In one setting, perhaps you could only choose and cycle between "major" monsters (the kind that would normally drop shards); and a regular targeting system that targets all monsters (including seekers, and other monster-generated zero-drop enemies). |
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I use Mouse + Keyboard, so the targeting issue doesn't apply, but I find Launch Meteor takes care of the main fairy + minifairies quite nicely. However, from what I can understand of the targeting system it seems to be more of an issue that the game prefers to select the minifairies rather than the main target. I don't know whether it would be viable to have the default select only non-seeker entities, and have a button-hold to allow the selection button to target only seekers when held (so there's a toggle, effectively)? |
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^ Yeah, that seems like a good idea. Or vice versa - the default selects everyone (probably ranked by closest to furthest enemies), and a button-hold selects only "real" enemies. I'm not sure how useful a toggle to select only seekers would be - but if it's not too hard to implement, I guess some people would like to have that 3rd option. (A completely different solution, in the spirit of this suggestion's title, would be to make the seekers indestructible, so like most projectiles - probably with a nerf to compensate, like making them slower, shorter-ranged, weaker, or something.) |
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Launch Meteor is great against Red Faeries but not Green Faeries as they have Earth Resistance. At Swamp Cave level 8 any of the spells you can afford to use on a character with high health, which is a must, will not do enough damage. So if you are up against Green Faeries, and it's almost guaranteed that you will be, you will be lucky to kill one of them before having to flee back to town for health. Green Faerie's fire weakness is useless as well as the only real fire spell there is is maybe Flameout which is ridiculously expensive to use and so in my case unaffordable as well. Other massive damage spells are either one or more of the following: Touch, 500+ in Mana, or Earth, which you couldn't use against them anyway. And because you are below Cave level 5 it's Lava and not Acid Water on the floor of the cave, if there is any, which means you can't hide underwater from the mini-faeries either. If there are 1-2 Will-o-wisps there too expect to see equally high level Ghosts in there for each time you stick your head in the room. 2 Will-o-wisps by themselves at level 8 is guaranteed death if they grab you but imagine getting caught by just one and trying to shot it in a room full of Green Mini-Faeries. TLDR: I agree that Faeries should be less common than they are now. Fire spells are too weak to be useful against Green Faeries. Earth Resistance is the worst resistance to be up against if you also need to be at range to live. Swamp Cave level 10 is looking impossible to reach as the enemies plus the level difference is too much to deal with on any continent that is current. Edit: I had Green and Red Faeries mixed up, changed for accuracy. |
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Most melee spells pierce. I've been using Flamethrower against green fairies and Leafy Whip against red fairies. They're more annoying than lethal (although I admit I haven't tried the deep swamp caves since 0008851). I'd like fairies to be less common, and appear in smaller groups than 5. |
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Yea, tweaking the small faries and reducing the bosses' spawn rate (perhaps indirectly, by making more types of bosses that are eligible for caves, or making some existing bosses eligible for caves) will take care of most of the annoyance with them. |
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I'm in agreement with the general idea that faeries have never been fun to fight. They're just too fiddly. Auto-targeting aside (although I use that frequently as well), non-piercing spells are basically out, so there goes half your arsenal, and perhaps your main spells depending on how you geared up. Fighting even one of the little blighters can take a couple minutes unless you luck out and trap them in a dead end where you can pound on them for a while. Otherwise they get knocked halfway across the cave with one shot. And then to compound that, they always come in packs, so when you finally get one down you've got so many more to deal with. And the wobbly flight patterns of the little seeking ones means that you almost never take them all out with one shot, unless you get lucky and hit them just as they're released. And by the time you hunt down all the escapees, there's another wave coming. Argh! Ok, I think I've vented enough now. I would support tweaks to faeries. |
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I think at least part of the problem is the caves themselves; The devs can correct me if I'm wrong, but the usual layout of most caverns (very vertical, not many flat areas, often pretty tangled) doesnt seem to allow most boss types to spawn in it. Some bosses will appear there.... usually the wasps, and the Cyclones, but the vast majority wont. The fairies almost seem like the default when others cant spawn. The bats too. Though of course both of those are native to caves only, except in boss gang missions. But yeah, I think these guys need some MAJOR tweaking. I find that the only real way to actually defeat them without it taking forever is to just crash into all the small ones, get close, and fire a Creeping Death bolt at them. Anything else takes awhile. This is, of course, only applicable with a character that CAN use that spell. They arent difficult to kill otherwise (they might be more interesting if they were). Alot of my trouble with them stems from sheer impatience, particularly considering how well most of the bosses in the game work. But also.... there's already lots of enemies that use seekers. The dragon, for instance, is a boss whose only attack is the fire seekers. So the fairies' attack isnt even unique in any way. They could instead, say, summon small fairies, but those arent seekers.... instead the orbit the larger ones as a protective shield, while the large ones fire bolts at you. Chip away at the shield (perhaps they cant re-summon it), and get at the main Fairy; or use things like piercing shots or melee attacks, whatever..... it'd be a more interesting fight that doesnt take a billionty years, and allows for a more interesting challenge, as well as a larger variety of tactics. Their current attack just shuts down so many possible options that the player otherwise has..... yet STILL isnt a very hard fight. |
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@Misery That could actually work pretty well. Maybe instead of all "sub-faries" be this new behaviour, maybe only most of them would be. A small percentage (and I do mean small, small enough such that they are not dominant or even often enough to be annoying) could home like they do now, but most would do that sort of sheild behaviour, or other defensive behaviours. |
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Wouldn't it be simpler to just exempt the seekers from the targeting system so you can focus your fire on the big ones? Or would that make things even worse? |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jul 10, 2012 4:48 am | Misery | New Issue | |
| Jul 10, 2012 6:13 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026619 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 6:56 am | BenMiff | Note Added: 0026620 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 9:07 am | Pyrrhic | Note Added: 0026629 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 9:09 am | Pyrrhic | Note Edited: 0026629 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 11:34 am | wyvern83 | Note Added: 0026648 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 5:12 pm | tigersfan | Internal Weight | => Feature Suggestion |
| Jul 10, 2012 5:12 pm | tigersfan | Status | new => considering |
| Jul 10, 2012 9:19 pm | jruderman | Note Added: 0026664 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 11:09 pm | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0026667 | |
| Jul 10, 2012 11:09 pm | TechSY730 | Note Edited: 0026667 | |
| Jul 11, 2012 12:16 am | wyvern83 | Note Edited: 0026648 | |
| Jul 11, 2012 12:26 am | BobTheJanitor | Note Added: 0026669 | |
| Jul 11, 2012 12:37 am | Misery | Note Added: 0026670 | |
| Jul 11, 2012 1:24 am | TechSY730 | Note Added: 0026671 | |
| Jul 11, 2012 10:09 am | Moonshine Fox | Note Added: 0026682 |
